Headgear from Tirpitz

**Vegard T** · 09-20-2012, 10:02 AM

I can't really contribute more to the thread, as I have not personally dived there, only seen pictures of items recovered, so I will let kurto answer about the condition of the cap, I would love to see better pictures of it

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-20-2012 10:02 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Scout** · 09-20-2012, 10:16 AM

Ditto. Better pics would be great.

Just now saw the pics you added to an earlier post; Wow, a bunch of EKs!!

Also from the Tirpitz, I assume?

Cant wait to see the result of the resto, please keep us informed (not all here are members of that other forum)!

by Collectorww2

EDIT:

Borrowed these from the WAF thread, as you can see, the ribbon is still there, and probably in an okay condition after some cleaning.
Attachment 399703

Attachment 399702

**AMTG** · 09-20-2012, 10:18 AM

The titanic also gave up lots of clothing that after restoration look like they were taken off yesterday! I saw many examples of loathing at a titanic exhibition

**Danmark** · 09-20-2012, 10:45 AM

by AMTG

The titanic also gave up lots of clothing that after restoration look like they were taken off yesterday! I saw many examples of loathing at a titanic exhibition

Thanks for that AMTG - it was all I was inferring, that stranger things have happened, and I wasn't trying to make anything personal ( at least I thought I wasn't, apologies if it came across that way )
Scout, you have helped me personally on other subjects, I don't "bite the hand that feeds"..... it was just that I didn't want the original thread starter to feel that we were all too negative ( as a whole, NOT individually ) as new blood is what keeps the forum alive.
Cheers, Dan

**Scout** · 09-20-2012, 11:01 AM

by Danmark

Thanks for that AMTG - it was all I was inferring, that stranger things have happened, and I wasn't trying to make anything personal ( at least I thought I wasn't, apologies if it came across that way )
Scout, you have helped me personally on other subjects, I don't "bite the hand that feeds"..... it was just that I didn't want the original thread starter to feel that we were all too negative ( as a whole, NOT individually ) as new blood is what keeps the forum alive.
Cheers, Dan

Dan, Im not in the least offended. No apology needed. I just wanted to make my position clear. I cant speak for others.
You are a good bloke in my book as well

After that touching bit of man love, I must also concur with the last part of your statement; It can be overwhelming to arrive on the scene as a newb here. Especially with the overwhelming collections and knowledge here (myself not included).
As you say, we want to be careful to not scare new members away from posting. After all, we dont want them just lurking! New points of view and pics of items are always welcomed IMO.
I certainly dont hope 'kurto' has been scared away, but if he went to pick that cap up hmself, I some how think it would take a bit more

by AMTG

The titanic also gave up lots of clothing that after restoration look like they were taken off yesterday! I saw many examples of loathing at a titanic exhibition

Amazing, the difference a single letter (or the lack there of) can make (or did you really mean, that you saw loathing?). Especially in the context of a display of recovered Titanic artifacts. A subject of which there have been much debate in the light of whether it should be treated as a grave as touched upon in earlier posts here

No offence meant.

I make plenty of spelling mistakes and surely occasionally drop one or more letters in some of my 'osts.'

**AMTG** · 09-20-2012, 11:03 AM

No offence at all....given the right freakish conditions it's amazing what survives!

I was just giving examples of stuff that astounded me!

**Jerry B** · 09-20-2012, 11:14 AM

Different artifacts survive to differing degrees depending on the "burial environment" and given the right combination of circumstances artifacts from the ancient past can survive in a fantastic condition which can seem unbelievable to many of us. Deep water excludes oxygen and prevents micro organisms from causing decay and it is possible given those conditions for cloth items to survive in a very good condition.

Other examples such as some of the bog bodies from Scandinavia and the "Iceman" from the Alps are similar examples of fantastic preservation and indeed the "Iceman" was originally thought to be a recent death, as was the head found near Lindow man from the UK and it was thought to be that of the missing wife of a local man who I think confessed to her murder, though it later turned out that it was not her head.

**big ned** · 09-20-2012, 11:23 AM

by Bond

Different artifacts survive to differing degrees depending on the "burial environment" and given the right combination of circumstances artifacts from the ancient past can survive in a fantastic condition which can seem unbelievable to many of us. Deep water excludes oxygen and prevents micro organisms from causing decay and it is possible given those conditions for cloth items to survive in a very good condition.
Other examples such as some of the bog bodies from Scandinavia and the "Iceman" from the Alps are similar examples of fantastic preservation and indeed the "Iceman" was originally thought to be a recent death, as was the head found near Lindow man from the UK and it was thought to be that of the missing wife of a local man who I think confessed to her murder, though it later turned out that it was not her head.

Aaaahhh....Peter Reyn-Bardt and the body that never was.....

**Jerry B** · 09-20-2012, 11:37 AM

by big ned

Aaaahhh....Peter Reyn-Bardt and the body that never was.....

That is the one Ned.

**Wagriff** · 09-20-2012, 12:57 PM

Just a few quick points....the clothing that was recovered intact on the Titanic wreck site generally came from inside sealed Leather suitcases. Leather contains Tannic acid which keep the sea life and bacteria at bay much better than sea water exposure-hence the boots shown on the seafloor. It's been mentioned that there are a huge number of Pairs of shoes lying scattered about the seafloor around the Titanic and that these shoes are the only evidence at all that there had been a body there-nothing else being even a trace of.
Another point, is that the Tirpitz wreck site is/has been in plain view from the shore in extremely shallow water with a good portion of it well above water and able to be crawled over and explored thoroughly by any curiosity seeker that wishes. Perhaps this hat was locked inside of a sealed compartment that was never exposed to the elements or sea water-I have no idea, but the Titanic, it should be remembered, is at the tremendous depth of 13,000 feet as opposed to the Tirpitz being in scuba depth and open air, and so the 2 wreck sites relics are really not all that comparable.
Having said that, I still have great doubts as to the story told with this particular cap. It makes no difference if the tally and the insignia are replaced-the cloth still should be an almost impossibility to survive under conditions like this. The ribbons on the EK's shown are pretty much what it Should look like. And, yes, I do also find it highly offensive and reprehensible that the Norway government has seen fit to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to climb on it and play Pick-Up-Sticks with the bones of the 800 dead sailors who are or were still aboard it. Why were these men never recovered? Certainly, many of them would have been easy enough to do so. Why are there piles of bones being found on Shore? Did they swim there? Or did ghouls bring them there from the wreck out of some perverted sense of fun? It's simply disgusting...