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Heer NCO Schirmmütze Questions

Article about: Hello, May I ask a some questions. I got visor cap a few months ago. Could anyone tell me unit information on inside of hat? I think "4. /J.R XX 1" is XX Regiment 1st battalions 4t

  1. #1
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    Default Heer NCO Schirmmütze Questions

    Hello, May I ask a some questions.

    I got visor cap a few months ago.

    Could anyone tell me unit information on inside of hat?

    I think "4. /J.R XX 1" is XX infantry Regiment 1st battalions 4th company (sweatband).

    letters are blurry, but I think"XX" is between 60 and 88.

    And I think "M. Kp 588" is 588th Battalions Marschkompanie (paper).

    Of course, this is my subjective idea and I want other collectors opinions.

    I'd like to know the military career of the owner of the hat, if possible.

    But I don't know the exact spelling of his name.

    Any assistance you can give me will surely be appreciated.

    Best regards.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2
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    I’m seeing I.R. 36...

    I think.

    Maybe 38?

  4. #3
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    Compare to this one: J. R. = Jäger Regiment, for the rest better wait for the unit specialits. I read Uffz (Unteroffizier) Dihrmann. HPL2008 is THE decoder for such cases.

    For the Roman I see here (post # 10): Luftwaffe NCO's Schirmmütze Unit Markings?

  5. #4
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    Thank you for your valuable feedback.

    First, let me tell you why I saw "J.R." as Infanterie Regiment.

    1. Visor hat branch is infantry(White).

    2. In Germany in the 1940s, there was a case in which "Infanterie" was marked as "Jnfanterie."

    This can also be found in Original documents and ID Tags.

    (Please check the attached photos.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not sure about the name, either. Because I got help from other collectors, but they told me a different opinion.

  6. #5
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    I think the unit informations on sweatband was his former unit information.

    Of course, It's not sure.

    So, if I can clearly identify his unit and name marked paper tags, I will be able to find a military career based on that information, and I will be able to clarify the unit information marked sweatband either.

    The problem is that unlike U.S. veteran, it is very difficult find for German veteran military career information.

    Is there anyone who can help me with this?

    Anyway, my plan is this, but I don't know the site where I can find that information.

    I'm so unhappy, because I can't find the information on the collection.

  7. #6
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    You are absolutely right with the J/I letter! I forgot to paste the link to the source which made me think it could be Jäger despite the Infanterie-white: Stamp on Heer schirmmütze sweatband

    As it was called Jäger by Coleman - an authority - I assumed this would be correct.

    For the research of the former wearer (if the name can be identified) there are specialists on this forum also, hopefully they will comment.

  8. #7

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    I cannot make out the name of the soldier, but it is one heckuva visor--those are some terrific markings, even if some are illegible.
    (& yes, "JR"=Infanterie Regiment)
    “Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”

  9. #8
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    Thanks all for opinions.

    And there's something else I'm curious about.

    I found a picture of the building of this hat manufaturers.

    Manufaturers name is J. Denecke.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Does anyone know the history of this company? (ex : date of establishment, owner, any etc)

    Was EM/NCO visor hats only supply to certain ranks? Also, I wonder how long supply/provide EM/NCO visor hat.

    Does anyone have any order number and documents (ex : HM 34 No.136) related to that?

    I'd really appreciate anyone help.

  10. #9

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    Thanks for the building photo--I had never seen that before.
    Not much info on the company, other than that they were in Burgdorf.
    They did make caps before the TR, and most of their TR production appears to have been contract WH visors like yours.
    Definitely a small mom 'n pop operation.
    “Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”

  11. #10

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    Some of Denecke's wares are shown in this thread:

    Maker Survery: J. Denecke Burgdorf
    “Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”

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