04-01-2010, 02:18 AM
Believe it or not, the company is still in business today.
Here is one of their labels:
04-01-2010 02:18 AM
04-02-2010, 06:15 AM
PS Schuelermuetzen were not necessarily the caps worn by fraternities in universities, i.e. Uni. Koeln or especially Bonn (not far from Wuppertal) but would also have been for secondary schools of the time.[/QUOTE]
Thank-you for your insight, once again.
Here is a Studentika Fabrik, Emil Ludke of Jena. This is their catalog, which I would guess dates from the Imperial era.
(I am still of the belief that one of the makers or Effekten distributors produced such a catalog during the TR):
04-02-2010, 06:16 AM
Ludke produced visors during the TR. Here is one of their Studentika Muetzen, along with a Polizei interior (just a stamp for their logo) and a Luftwaffe flak visor. Once again, I wonder if they produced a brochure or catalog during the period 33-45.
04-02-2010, 06:23 AM
Your catalogs are for a firm that made regalia of various kinds of university fraternities, i.e. Verbindungen, or schlagende Verbindungen, i.e. dueling fraternities. Such regalia included head wear and other decorations, as well as dueling items as well, though not the weapons, I think. Of course, when market conditions presented themselves, then they made military regalia, too.
In Vienna such regalia makers still exist, in fact. Maybe in Tuebingen or Goettingen or Bonn, too, but student life there bears no likeness to what you picture here.
I am going back there, so I shall look for you.
There are websites with this stuff, too.
I had a cap made for me by one of these firms when I lived in Vienna forty years ago. I was in the neighborhood again in February.
Schueler were and are different from university students. I believe in the film the Blue Angel the secondary school, i.e. Gymnasium students also wore caps in the era say prior to 1930 or so.
04-03-2010, 02:35 AM
F-B, did you ever notice the almost non-existence of packaging for visors during the TR? They were common during the Imperial era, and even on into the Weimar era, but they almost cease to exist after 1933. !Surely cost was a factor.)
It makes one wonder how these hats were tranported from the factory to the retailer, and how they were then retailed at the point of sale.
Just more of the meandering questions I think about in my (all too rare) free time.....
04-03-2010, 04:02 AM
I am not sure I know precisely what you mean? If anything, the issue is whether such packaging (such as it was...) survived, actually. As to the retail at the point of sale, I think you should re-read all the post I made from Uniformenmarkt, and the answer should be self evident, no?
Also, we have more packaging today on a huge scale than others did in former times. In any case, the answer to your issues lies not in scouring the internet for physical evidence by accident, but in the following: a.) learn German; b.) go to Germany and find the necessary museums, archives, historical societies etc.; c.) read Uniformenmarkt for its insights into this world that is sufficiently "other" from our own 21st century to be pretty foreign and then some.
PS They still sell hat boxes in Vienna in certain hat stores. You also need to go to Munich and Vienna where they have a culture of hat sales (and not base ball caps...) and enjoin the locals to discuss the issue with you.
04-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Bitte Herr Professor
Ja,vieliecht,Sie konnen das machten tuen, und hatte das vorhere gemacht . Aber heir, Du bis die Leherin, und wir glaubt was du hat vorheregesacht.
Es tut mir liecht, bitte, wann Ich mochten einem bischen mier zu verstehen.
Die Ziet ist verlang dem kriegziet und alles wissen das Du hatte Dem Letzten Worten, Nicht war?
Diesem worten das Ich habe ausgeshcriebt vieliecht Sie konnen nicht verstehen.
Das ist mienem falschgemacht, wann Ich haben nur ienem jahre auf dem schule zum Deustche zu lerhrnen, Es tut mir Liecht, bitte .
Hoffenlicht, Sie kann mien kurtze brief verstehen.
04-03-2010, 11:12 AM
Please excuse me for writing you in my bad German. I did so out of respect to you to demonstrate that there are those of us who do take your words seriously. I am learning German, and I have only one year under my belt. I was reticent to even write you at all due to your extreme understanding of cloth and such and your outstanding collection from which you post, most generously, from time to time.
I do hang on your words and respect your abilities and vast knowledge, and from there I have undertaken to learn German in reading and writing, as you have said so many times before it would be useful to do.
04-03-2010, 06:26 PM
Lieber Kollege, haben Sie besten Dank fuer Ihre werten Zeilen. Nach einem Jahr Deutschunterricht meistern Sie das viel besser als manch ein anderer Student. Bravo und weitermachen! Herzlichst, Jhr, FB
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 04-03-2010 at 09:30 PM.
04-03-2010, 06:38 PM
Dear Sir, please forgive me being didactic, and please do not be reticent, since your German is surely pretty good for one year's work. I do not mean to be a pain in the a##, but the answer seems sort of self evident, especially when one poses questions and finds answers that are wrong, and in some cases, very wrong. I guess the cost of all of this is greater with the internet, where especially on the other site, there is a either a deliberate or accidental phenomenon of the perpetuation of misinformation because of bad process, method, research, thinking, you tell me. That is, the terrible simplifier with the digital soapbox and a mesmerized crowd of followers. I am a terrible complicator or complicater or someone who fuzzes it all up because there is no way to take the unknowns out of something that is inherently different from our own knowledge and experience. The unknowns make the doctrinaire insane.
In fact, this regalia confused the people who made it, they existed in a cosmos of too many organizations micro- managing all parameters connected with raw materials, clothing, retail, etc. and then also the natural tendency to push back against regulations as well as structure of society and economy which varies greatly especially with 21st century US hyper capitalism, elite super priesthood of management, over standardization, and big box retail with branches throughout the world, i.e. Ikea or Walmart or whatever... You Europeans who read this know that the the crafts, the arts, the artisan-al still play a role in society, so you understand what I mean.
The Nazis you see marching well and Sieg Heil-ing in You Tube here then did not know which badge to wear, did not wear the one they were supposed to, and also existed in an economy that operated differently than you might think. Also, the Nuremberg event was not the norm, but an exception which was more akin to Wagner's Ring cycle than normal life, and hence over determined in its preparation and execution. If you do not know what was Wagner's Ring, then please go immediately to a "scull" thread and argue about whether an "M" is an upside down "W" or not, and I apologize.
Why these insights are then so difficult for certain persons here is a further mystery to me. They must be the victims of a lot of standardization, doctrine making, and otherwise homogenization of management that is all pretty abhorrent.
Once you learn German, go to Germany and Austria and look around, especially at the local museums and historical societies devoted to society, the crafts, early industrial development, and local history more generally. You will find remarkable things, indeed.
Also, I am quite certain that I really do not understand much about this stuff, at all, in fact. So thanks kindly for any compliments, but one of you surely has the where withal to teach us far more and better than whatever unfolds here.
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 04-03-2010 at 09:29 PM.