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Is it possible to identify the manufacturer?

Article about: Gentlemen, it would be possible to identify the manufacturer from the photographs ?? Any leads would be seen ?? You think the eagle and wreath were replaced? Thank you very much and I await

  1. #31

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    Quote by ErWeSa View Post
    No, I don't think so. I possess an early Erel to which the peak is also handsewn.

    Of course peaks which came off sometimes were fixed by hand, also after the war. Simply check the peak, those which were resewn by hand are easily identified (there are "empty" holes as you wouldn't use every hole caused by a sewing machine simply to fix a peak to a cap except if you want a "perfect" repair - cp. to the link of the machine sewn peak and think of the time it would take to fill every hole with a stich).
    ErWeSa, excuse my ignorance, but then I can think that this cap was made completely handmade, that is hand-sewn?
    Now there is something that intrigues me, each of the factories built the headdress, the sweatband, ie all the accessories?
    Or there was some larger factory only built the bullyon, the cocade ???
    Thank you so much.
    NOTE: If I bother you, please let me know, but there are so many questions that do not know where to start.

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  3. #32

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    Caps were made either in a more industrial production, with a wide variety of specialized machinery and also handicrafts, or, they were made in the traditional method,
    with fewer specialized machines, and much of the work done by hand.

    The insignia, the leather goods, the Zutaten, as they were called were made by specialized firms. The effort to make one of these peaked caps was considerable.

    They are not like a throw away piece of clothing from a big box textile merchant today, that's for sure.
    damit, basta.

  4. #33

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Caps were made either in a more industrial production, with a wide variety of specialized machinery and also handicrafts, or, they were made in the traditional method,
    with fewer specialized machines, and much of the work done by hand.

    The insignia, the leather goods, the Zutaten, as they were called were made by specialized firms. The effort to make one of these peaked caps was considerable.

    They are not like a throw away piece of clothing from a big box textile merchant today, that's for sure.
    Fantastic.

  5. #34

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    Quote by Astrath View Post
    Fantastic.
    You know our Muetzenfabrik thread, so spend some time with its hundred or so pages and read it all.

    Wolfgang is also able to answer all of these questions.

    Do look at what Mr. Mint has posted in hundreds of threads, too.

    Much collector attention falls on cap factories, whereby I am interested in the craftsmen shops, since they embodied the tradition
    and, often, the quality of their wares was equal to or superior to an industrial concern.

    US collectors all grasp at the Lubstein firm in Berlin, which was an industrial works.

    The German clothing trade and industrial underwent a rationalization under the impact of what Aldous Huxley called Fordism, and which, really, Taylorism,
    especially in the period after 1919.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-25-2016 at 04:08 PM.
    damit, basta.

  6. #35

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    Heard a lot about Lubstein, I saw something in the book of Wilkins, asism as CRIHA and EREL are major manufacturers, Erel if I'm not mistaken had many contracts with smaller companies.
    I did not understand correctly the connection between the writer Aldous Huxley and Fordism. I know Aldous Huxley criticized the materialistic world and did not quite believe that regimes such as Nazism and Fascism could emerge so hard, which led him to write a new book in the future. While reading often has to resort to the dictionary and therefore can not a perfect translation. only a rough translation.
    I am also interested by artisanal items, something simpler, tradition fascinates me, the craft will never be surpassed by industrial, with few exceptions for the time from 1920 to 1940.

  7. #36
    ?

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    Quote by Astrath View Post
    ErWeSa, excuse my ignorance, but then I can think that this cap was made completely handmade, that is hand-sewn?
    Now there is something that intrigues me, each of the factories built the headdress, the sweatband, ie all the accessories?
    Or there was some larger factory only built the bullyon, the cocade ???
    Thank you so much.
    NOTE: If I bother you, please let me know, but there are so many questions that do not know where to start.
    Hello Astrath,

    there is something of a teacher in myself, too (a profession I would love to do and, in fact, did for some time), so don't worry, I'm glad to pass on knowledge, what would it be good for otherwise?

    To your question (thanks, F.-B. for your answer!): Caps weren't completely sewn by hand, ordinary sewing machines were used to sew all the fabric parts together. For fixing the centerband to the stiffener and for sewing in the sweatband and the peak a special free arm sewing machine as shown in F.-B.'s picture here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attach...r-img_0407.jpg
    was necessary. This was a major investment for a small cap maker (and labour was cheap at that time) so many caps were finished (i. e. the last steps in production, which are the sewing of the centerband on to the stiffener and the sewing in of sweatband and peak were done) by hand.

    You can find information on cap making also in these threads:

    Cap Making

    can somebody help me to exactly define a fabric?
    Last edited by ErWeSa; 01-25-2016 at 11:06 PM.

  8. #37

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    Quote by ErWeSa View Post
    Hello Astrath,

    there is something of a teacher in myself, too (a profession I would love to do and, in fact, did for some time), so don't worry, I'm glad to pass on knowledge, what would it be good for otherwise?

    To your question (thanks, F.-B. for your answer!): Caps weren't completely sewn by hand, ordinary sewing machines were used to sew all the fabric parts together. For fixing the centerband to the stiffener and for sewing in the sewatband and the peak a special free arm sewing machine as shown in F.-B.'s picture here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attach...r-img_0407.jpg
    was necessary. This was a major investment for a small cap maker (and labour was cheap at that time) so many caps were finished (i. e. the last steps in production, which are the sewing of the centerband on to the stiffener and the sewing in of sweatband and peak were done) by hand.

    You can find information on cap making also in these threads:

    Cap Making

    can somebody help me to exactly define a fabric?

    Wowwwwwww, fantastic, do not even know where to start, my excitement meets reality at this point, I think that in 10 years I know something further, but perhaps in a lifetime I can understand a little about caps of WWII.
    Thank you very much for everything, and I would like to ask a question, is how long that you and Mr. FB collect and interested in all this?
    Just so keep in mind how long it will take to learn a little bit about all this. It becomes absurd join a forum with you, I do not know if you can realize this, but I believe that very few people manage to establish an equal conversation to-toe with you the knowledge you have is absurd and wonderful.
    I will spend the rest of my life wondering who made this cap, as was the workshop, who bought it and how it was used, scares me the excellent condition of this cap, as such good things lasted so long, over 70 years, but I know with me it will outlast 70.
    You also sewing caps? '
    Manufactures caps?
    (I do not know the best term to ask that.)
    as I'm reading the topics, some names are beginning to be easy, as cocade, sweatband, which were once great challenges.
    In my cap in question, do you think the eagle may have been removed and re-laid again?
    Thank you so much.
    NOTE: You are a great teacher.

  9. #38

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    Wolfgang makes caps in essentially the same manner as in the period. We found a cap making book from 1935 and he has applied it to his cap making passion.
    I have collected, more or less, since 1961. You are very welcome to be here, of course, and your attitude and interest mean that you will contribute a great deal.
    We have certain persons, however, who are not in the slightest interested in knowledge and who are hostile to the search for same. You show no inclination to this kind of
    attitude or behavior. Also, posting here helps your collecting, because others offer items here at sane prices. There are many things about Nazi regalia that are
    impossible to know. But the unknown unknowns and the known unknowns are better addressed in this circle.


    As to your cap, many of these things were denazified and then the badge was re attached. Your badge is alu and more or less of same epoch as the rest of the cap.
    Being hypercritical of these things is also unhelpful. Too many on these fora are so afraid of the whole project that they fail to grasp opportunities of merit.

    Wolfgang is a great teacher and a fine colleague.
    damit, basta.

  10. #39
    ?

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    Hello Astrath,

    I have been collecting uniform caps for about 35 years. I have always liked those of the period of about 1938 - 1945 most as they are in my opinion the most elegant (well, many of them, the so-called Klappmütze in Wehrmachtsschnitt) and well made caps ever. There are only a few countries (Italy for example) where you can still find elegant caps today. These are, however, constructed differently, their elegance is due to other factors and it would lead too far to explain this here.

    My problem was and still is - due to facts I won't comment on here either - that I never had (even though they were "dirt-cheap" some 30 years ago compared to today's prices) and still don't have the money to afford the originals. So I had to trust in luck which I really had in a few cases to get original caps, or I had to purchase modern (i.e. post-war) caps that came near to the originals, or, and this was the third option, try to make caps myself.

    I started to do so when I started to collect. I disassembled some modern caps, I tried to peep inside the originals and by trial and error succeeded to sew caps with which I am sometimes content. You can see some here: can somebody help me to exactly define a fabric? (post # 54)

    Without proper training, and F.-B. states it again and again in this forum that the master cap makers had to do years of apprenticeship, an amateur like me will, however, never reach the perfection of the old masters, let alone that it is very hard to find the proper materials.

    When you look at your cap you see the shell but not what is inside - such as cheesecloth reinforcements, stiffeners, the cord or rattan inside the piping etc. etc. etc. It took me some time to get all this right and then I was lucky enough to find this forum and through F.-B. Hempe, the cap making manual. Many things in there I didn't know, they were a relevation and a boost to go on trying to make caps. Sometimes they turn out well, somtimes not, but every attempt is another learning step. Unfortunately there is nobody to ask so Helen (she makes caps, too) and I just have to try things out and learn.

    Many of the "cap researchers" (collectors would be too simple an expression for experts like F.-B., Bob Coleman, stonemint and many more) spent decades of their lives to accumulate all that knowledge, here they share it with us and we can and must be happy that we don't have to spend decades of research ourselves (and we wouldn't have a chance to find all this information), so do 't worry, it won't take you 10 years to learn what you want to know. By and by the expressions will become familiar, you'll know what is meant by, say, Tellermütze/Klappmütze/Sattelform and so on if you really choose to stick to it. (Some knowlege of German would be helpful, though.)

    In this spirit: Happy hats, as F.-B. puts it
    Last edited by ErWeSa; 02-28-2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #40

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Wolfgang makes caps in essentially the same manner as in the period. We found a cap making book from 1935 and he has applied it to his cap making passion.
    I have collected, more or less, since 1961. You are very welcome to be here, of course, and your attitude and interest mean that you will contribute a great deal.
    We have certain persons, however, who are not in the slightest interested in knowledge and who are hostile to the search for same. You show no inclination to this kind of
    attitude or behavior. Also, posting here helps your collecting, because others offer items here at sane prices. There are many things about Nazi regalia that are
    impossible to know. But the unknown unknowns and the known unknowns are better addressed in this circle.


    As to your cap, many of these things were denazified and then the badge was re attached. Your badge is alu and more or less of same epoch as the rest of the cap.
    Being hypercritical of these things is also unhelpful. Too many on these fora are so afraid of the whole project that they fail to grasp opportunities of merit.

    Wolfgang is a great teacher and a fine colleague.


    Sensational, and thank you for your kind words.
    I want to learn, nowadays people do not like to keep the traditions, I am very traditional and cherish for all you learn.
    Unfortunately never get to the point of understanding and knowledge that you have, I say this because I have no access to items of WWII, I was just over 5 caps in my hands, that's ridiculous, and because of a weak currency as REAL, our money is not worth 1/4 of $ 1. So I give up on wanting to have as broad knowledge, but I want to at least be able to buy a cap without doubt its originality, as I do with some daggers, as already read enough about daggers, especially on the SA daggers.
    I want to look at a cap and say, this is good, this is bad, this fear sweatband exchanged, I had never noticed the seams of this cap, funny how my cap the Luftwaffe is perfectly sewing machine, and the Artillery has a manual sewing, or more craft can so to speak.
    It is these details that I want to see, and little things that make a big difference.
    I need a lot of information, is there any topic that provides the key words and key concepts of caps in this forum ???
    I saw in EK forum that they put a photograph of an EK with all the keywords for a beginner this is fantastic because often read a word and do not know which part of the cap it is about.
    I was reading the article on caps JANKE of StoneMint and I'm sure I can now tell the difference between a fake and an original cap cap, sewing and headdress strings into black line, different from the original that are painted.
    Wolfgang is a wonderful person, very helpful, very much appreciate your helpfulness.
    He does replicas ?? Reproductions ??
    I'm interested in buying a replica of an SS cap, because I believe that I will never have one in my collection, due to the high cost.
    What is the minimum amount I could afford on a SS cap, 5,000, $ 6,000 ??? I know it depends on the condition, but already too high, with $ 6,000 buy 3-5 caps, and so at the moment is a dream but not the priority, but if you ever sell any of his SS caps let me know, would love to have something from your collection.
    I will continue reading the topics.
    Note: I have long wanted to take that cap eagle to see if has any manufacturer, but at the same time I'm afraid to spoil the mounting pins. One day, I'll buy one cap and desmontarei, I know this is terrible, almost a crime, hehehehe, but want to do it to understand the whole process, touch, feel the weight and material.
    Thank you very much

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