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RZM list of approved hat makers

Article about: It was in 1935 in the RZM-handbook with the numbers A1 and A2. In 1938 a new list appeared and in various issues from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM" additions were made, as well as

  1. #11
    ?

    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    As far as I know suppliers from goods as visors and leather bands, so makers of hat elements
    were not listed as A1 and A2. The A1 and A2 were pure manufacturers for headgear. Visors and
    leather bands came from sub-contractors: the leather industry and industry where fibre was made.
    Absolutely, that's what I was referring to. On second thoughts, the A1 A2 list will be plenty long enough (thousands?) without the sub-contractors as well, interesting as those might be.

    I would welcome any such list in any format.

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    Officially there are 1604 RZM-permission for A1 (Mützenfabriken) and A2 (Mützenmacher, Handwerk).
    Some are only once mentioned, some twice and occasionally others three times (due to changes of
    names or the company came in hands of another owner). Groups of numbers were left open and as far as known never given a permission (they were not mentioned anyway in the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM up through December 1944).
    In the RZM no specific lists were given for sub-contractors, delivering for those A1 and A2.

    Interesting to know: 1604 was granted February 17, 1940 to a company at Danzig. Other numbers (lower) were granted during the war, for example 1481 was granted May 27, 1944 to a concern at Nürnberg, which was one of the last received permissions.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    In the RZM no specific lists were given for sub-contractors, delivering for those A1 and A2.
    Perhaps I've misinterpreted the data but there were entries in the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM (1934 to 35, which are the only ones I have) for hat fabric and leather band firms for example that were given RZM codes.

    There are also lots of entries for hat retail outlets and even hat band retail outlets.(no codes)
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    Last edited by BenVK; 05-04-2012 at 11:12 AM.

  5. #14
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    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    I'll try and move the relevant parts of this thread to a new one as I think it deserves it own discussion.

  6. #15

    Default Re: RZM list of approved hat makers

    This is now a new stand alone thread.

    Cheers, Ade.
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  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: RZM list of approved hat makers

    Top man Ade, many thanks!

  8. #17

    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    Hello stonemint: not yet. Roger noted me yesterday it has not arrived at Bender's place/home yet.
    He does expect it soon.

    I know much RZM lists, and they are put together very quikcly, but most of the lists are of not much value at all as they give a number and a name. In my HJ-handbook I did list the A4 numbers for cloth insignia, but with that I gave dates when a permission was revoked/withdrawn or the number was again granted. This gives a better timeframe as sometimes a permission was granted in 1934, but already revoked in 1936 and the specific manufacturer after that no longer was allowed to produce. To give an idea how it is planned for headgear-manufacturers here number 240:

    started as A2/240, Eugen Flach, Haspe-Hagen (Westf.), received theur number on March 8, 1935; revoked July 18, 1936. With that date the company got an A1 indication until September 30, 1938, as when the permission was revoked. Since January 25, 1941 theyt got the old number back, but again as an A2/. So gobally it will look in a booklet like:
    A2/240 Eugen Flach 08-03-35 07-18-36
    Haspe-Hagen (Westf.)
    A1/240 Ibid 07-18-36 09-30-38
    A2/240 Eugen Flach 01-25-41
    Haspe (Westf.)
    (for over two years Flach did not have an RZM permission)

    but then nicely in columns. I do not include the old adresses. In my opinion the collector only wants to know who had number 240........
    I cannot speak for everyone, but I like addresses.
    This would be difficult to do, but a list by both the RZM # in consective order and a cross-list in alphabetical order would be even better.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  9. #18

    Default Re: RZM list of approved hat makers

    Hello BenVK,

    Mützenband does not have to do with the leather sweat cap band, which in
    German is phrased as Schweissleder. Mützenband, also known as Bundstreifen,
    is the cap band as for the DAF, the ribbed band with the motif or the band as
    used for the naval SA visored cap. Until 1935 these manufacturers had the code
    MB and a number. This was in 1935 changed into A5 - Mützenbandhersteller
    with the number they used before.

    Practically all numbers you show are listed as invalid according to the judicial department from the RZM (Ungültig erklärte Berechtigungsnachweise). In fact after the mentioned date they were no longer allowed to manufacturer headgear for political organizations. Many of them worked since then for the Reichsarbeitsdienst-organization.

    I know the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM, owning it complete from June 1934 (first
    issue) through December 1944, including the manufacturing-regulations from
    1936 and 1938. I do miss only a few pages with manufacturing regulations.

    Stonemint: adresses do not have any value at all after so many years. I could include them, as I have them. But it does not make the list any better. As there is normally a tag with the number for the manufacturer, the list with numbers is the easiest and quickest for controlling. I do it for years, checking for collectors when telling me their numbers. I have have found out that names are hardly ever mentioned with such a tag.

    Thanks for making this into a new thread.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #19

    Default Re: RZM list of approved hat makers

    More wishful thinking on my part: to see Uniformenmarkt published in bound volumes on glossy paper in english....
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  11. #20

    Default Re: Post your favorite cap please

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    Hello stonemint: not yet. Roger noted me yesterday it has not arrived at Bender's place/home yet.
    He does expect it soon.

    I know much RZM lists, and they are put together very quikcly, but most of the lists are of not much value at all as they give a number and a name. In my HJ-handbook I did list the A4 numbers for cloth insignia, but with that I gave dates when a permission was revoked/withdrawn or the number was again granted. This gives a better timeframe as sometimes a permission was granted in 1934, but already revoked in 1936 and the specific manufacturer after that no longer was allowed to produce. To give an idea how it is planned for headgear-manufacturers here number 240:

    started as A2/240, Eugen Flach, Haspe-Hagen (Westf.), received theur number on March 8, 1935; revoked July 18, 1936. With that date the company got an A1 indication until September 30, 1938, as when the permission was revoked. Since January 25, 1941 theyt got the old number back, but again as an A2/. So gobally it will look in a booklet like:
    A2/240 Eugen Flach 08-03-35 07-18-36
    Haspe-Hagen (Westf.)
    A1/240 Ibid 07-18-36 09-30-38
    A2/240 Eugen Flach 01-25-41
    Haspe (Westf.)
    (for over two years Flach did not have an RZM permission)

    but then nicely in columns. I do not include the old adresses. In my opinion the collector only wants to know who had number 240........
    Thank you for this valuable and important analysis that confirms a point I have made in other locales at an earlier date.
    damit, basta.

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