Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 48

"Textbook", Regulations, and "Non-textbook": A Discussion

Article about: This thread makes me think of all the non-regulation items , that have been passed over as reproductions . Cheers Chris

  1. #11

    Default

    Dear Mr. DRK, thank you for all the examples selected with wit and care. I completely accept your point as to the larceny of dealers and the tendency to use exceptions as a cover to sell fakes or made up pieces constituted of partially authentic items.

    My point has to do with history and the past versus the militaria market and the present. My point arises from tens of thousands of posts wrestling with the intricacies of the past, as well as being a professional historian in advanced study and the dichotomy between my classroom in the physical world and this place, with its peculiar traits. That is, I am commenting on the interpretations of the evidence that end in error that especially
    operate in this odd space to which I cannot become accustomed and surrender all my 20th century baggage as an historian and researcher.


    My comment also concerns the dogmatism and or outright intolerance of a few internet savants, who so terrorize beginning
    collectors that the latter routinely misidentify authentic items as fakes. This mis identification happens endlessly.

    There are certain people who cannot wrestle with contradictions and ambiguity and, in their mental rigidity resort to list making and rule barking like on the barrack's square.

    My assumptions as to the market are simple: I do not trust dealers nor do I trust collectors. I try to rely on my own knowledge and I do not for a minute accept 99% of the "provenance" of items, unless I can more or less verify it myself.

    Thanks for the photo essay on screwed up caps. We could make endless such pictorial tableaux for a variety of items of note.

    As to the item on the Collector's Guild site, you should tell Whammond about it. He is very good in my experience with such interventions.

    In my field of black SS uniforms, for instance, limitless possibilities exist for such inquiry.

    Thanks for all your splendid work on this site. I enjoy your posts very much.
    damit, basta.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12
    ?

    Default

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    TrondK: Do you know all the regulations for the Cossacks?
    Also the domestic concerns (Interne Angelegenheiten)!
    No Sir, i do not posess such information. I read something in one of my books some time ago- but my library is currently on the other side of the world, so i cant double check this.
    Collect ROA, Cossack, Schuma and other WW2 Volunteer militaria.

    "Be Humble and kind, for you may find that it was Odin you entertained"

  4. #13
    DRK
    DRK is offline
    ?

    Default

    Here's a copy of the Uniformenmarkt from August 15 , 1937.....
    For those who can't read the old German language , the title says : "No improper uniforms !"
    It's an item about improper uniforms , they were NOT allowed.....
    There's also some text about the steel rings which were in the top of the visor caps ( "Tellermützen ) : it was noticed that these rings were sometimes removed or broken..... this was not allowed....

    Theo

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	16-37-01.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	212.7 KB 
ID:	816926

  5. #14
    DRK
    DRK is offline
    ?

    Default

    Here's another article , also from the Uniformenmarkt....
    It says :

    "To all manufacturers of uniforms and uniform-accessories , and to all vendors : we urge that manufacturing of uniforms and equipment is done according to regulations , only sell items which are manufactured according to regulations !"

    Although there were "violations" , there was an urge to follow the regulations.....

    Theo

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	18-37-02.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	331.0 KB 
ID:	816942

  6. #15

    Default

    Of course the very fact that both the manufacturers/retailers and the wearers of uniforms were constantly reminded of and sternly lectured about the official regulations proves that these were too often ignored.

    (If everybody followed the rules, the trade publications, circulars and orders wouldn't be quite so full of this issue.)

  7. #16

    Default

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Of course the very fact that both the manufacturers/retailers and the wearers of uniforms were constantly reminded of and sternly lectured about the official regulations proves that these were too often ignored.

    (If everybody followed the rules, the trade publications, circulars and orders wouldn't be quite so full of this issue.)
    Thank you, Andreas, that's my point. This question comes up constantly in Uniformenmarkt.

    In the Rest Militaria Verlag books on the old armies and the Reichswehr the issue is also analyzed.

    See p. 124-5 of the work below in detail.



    Die deutsche Reichswehr

    Über das Buch

    Farbbildband, 464 Seiten, ca. 1000 Fotos und Abbildungen, Leinen gebunden mit Schutzumschlag. Format: 29,5 x 26 cm
    Die Autoren

    Dr. Jürgen Kraus, Adolf Schlicht
    Preis

    € 89,90
    ISBN

    978-3-902526-00-7 (Deutsch)
    978-3-902526-00-7 (Englisch)
    Gewicht

    2,74 kg
    Inhalt

    Die Uniformierung und Ausrüstung des deutschen Reichsheeres von 1919 bis 1932. In diesem umfassenden Text- und Bildband wird die gesamte Bekleidung und Ausrüstung des Reichsheeres 1919 - 1932 ausgebreitet. Dass mit der Reichswehr in der Weimarer Republik eine völlig neue Armee entstand, sollte auch in der Uniformierung zum Ausdruck kommen. In der experimentellen Phase der vorläufigen Reichswehr 1919/20 wurde daher nach ganz neuen Wegen in ungewöhnlichen, heute weitgehend unbekannten Abzeichen gesucht. Mit der Schaffung der endgültigen Reichswehr im Jahre 1920 fand die Uniformierung mit der Rückkehr zu traditionelleren Formen ihre endgültige Ausformung. Anknüpfend an die Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres im 1. Weltkrieg schuf sie erstmalig eine moderne Einheitsuniform mit einem ganz neuen System von Abzeichen. Deren Bestandteile, einschließlich der Abzeichen und persönlichen Ausrüstungsteile, werden detailliert beschrieben, wobei sich die Darstellung auf umfangreiche Quellenforschungen stützen kann. Alle Bekleidungsstücke treten dem Betrachter durch brillante Farbfotos plastisch vor Augen. Hierzu konnten die Bestände des Bayerischen Armeemuseums erstmals ausgewertet werden, die auch eine bedeutsame Sammlung von Originalproben umfassen. Ergänzungen bieten zentrale Objekte aus dem Wehrgeschichtlichen Museum in Rastatt und aus Privatsammlungen. Außerdem wird anhand von zahlreichen zeitgenössischen Fotos die unmittelbare Trageweise der Stücke sichtbar, die vielfach bis zum 2. Weltkrieg weiter benutzt wurden. Durch diese Kombination wird das Erscheinungsbild der Reichswehr in all seinen Facetten deutlich. Ca. 1000 Fotos und Abbildungen, Großformat. 464 Seiten.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 03-18-2015 at 09:58 PM.
    damit, basta.

  8. #17

    Default

    As I read it, the article in Uniformenmarkt, which I already well know, is a tour d' horizon of widespread violations of regulations which are a custom and a kind of the from the bottom up soldierly fasion.

    This willful bending of regulations, and or, spontaneous fads and such, is an old, old Prussian and German military custom, actually.

    In another article ca. 1935 or 1936 or so, there are the meeting reports of the Gesellschaft fuer Heeres und Uniformkunde, in which a lecture took place on exactly this Eigenmaechtigkeit

    in the wear of uniforms.

    Both the RZM circulars and the SS orders are full of this same hectoring to adhere to orders, and how stupid or obtuse those are who do not.

    All of it straight out of Mann's Der Untertan.


    Siehe da!


    https://archive.org/details/DerUnter...chHeinrichMann
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 03-18-2015 at 08:07 PM.
    damit, basta.

  9. #18

    Default

    A good discussion, that I thought had such merit it should stand alone.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  10. #19

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d8e3e4ca589d4e5e51b9007fd368cd92.image.348x550.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	49.9 KB 
ID:	817109Click image for larger version. 

Name:	e57331e6-9d06-11e4-9251-09a55c497216.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	76.4 KB 
ID:	817111Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ReibartF3.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	151.3 KB 
ID:	817112Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Reibertschu41F3.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	180.7 KB 
ID:	817113In a plunge in didactic excess, here is an example of the "book," which was not really a textbook as many Americans understand it.

    This is the Reibert, Der Dienstuntericht im Heere, for the branches, where you can see that the improper and proper wear of uniform is delineated.

    This publication was a handbook for the soldier, an item of old and glorious lineage, but not simply a regulation in the sense that some collectors misinterpret it.

    - - ------- - -

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Reibertschu41F3.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	180.7 KB 
ID:	817114Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ReibartF3.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	151.3 KB 
ID:	817115Click image for larger version. 

Name:	e57331e6-9d06-11e4-9251-09a55c497216.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	76.4 KB 
ID:	817116Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d8e3e4ca589d4e5e51b9007fd368cd92.image.348x550.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	49.9 KB 
ID:	817117Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d8e3e4ca589d4e5e51b9007fd368cd92.image.348x550.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	49.9 KB 
ID:	817109Click image for larger version. 

Name:	e57331e6-9d06-11e4-9251-09a55c497216.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	76.4 KB 
ID:	817111Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ReibartF3.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	151.3 KB 
ID:	817112Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Reibertschu41F3.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	180.7 KB 
ID:	817113In a plunge in didactic excess, here is an example of the "book," which was not really a textbook as many Americans understand it.

    This is the Reibert, Der Dienstuntericht im Heere, for the branches, where you can see that the improper and proper wear of uniform is delineated.

    This publication was a handbook for the soldier, an item of old and glorious lineage, but not simply a regulation in the sense that some collectors misinterpret it.
    damit, basta.

  11. #20

    Default

    Whoops. But you get my point.
    damit, basta.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 03-07-2015, 11:50 PM
  2. 02-25-2015, 08:10 PM
  3. 09-28-2014, 08:30 PM
  4. ""Dachboden Fund, ein Stahlhelm""TOP ZUSTAND""ANSCHAUEN""

    In German helmets on e-bay just added
    06-21-2014, 09:50 PM
  5. 02-26-2014, 03:00 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •