Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

**Dimas** · 10-18-2008, 09:43 PM

by Friedrich-Berthold

This is another from Shea, very similar to that on the Gottlieb site.

It too was in nearly unworn condition. This is not the most revealing image, but I did actually look at this cap. I assume these were extra wear thingies of mid war which endured in a locker or Kammer. That is, they are not worn in combat; they are not sweated up; they lack the patina of combat.

Happy collecting...

I 'am allways glad with your posts! Awesome displays and history, thank you very much FB!

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-18-2008 09:43 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 09:46 PM

its interior....this is part of what purports to be a complete SD uniform in grey for an officer candidate in the RSHA.

I shall leave to others the grey uniform, but this cap seems real to me. However, I do not know 100% and am not an advertising service for expensive US dealers.

I also must say that I have posted three caps all very similar, and there is an intellectual trap in this, i.e. one piece is real and then one out of mental laziness precludes other variants and seizes on the known knowns versus the unknown unknowns.

I know other variants of such enlisted caps in grey surely existed, but these pieces here are a kind of orientation in the midst of deep confusion.

But...three or so of these caps have come to market in the last quarter of a year, and they are all quite similar. I leave to those of you versed in statistics to tell me what it means.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 09:56 PM

Here is whole Montur....please do not destroy this dealer's stuff, since I really think such a tendency is objectionable in these fora.

But if this ensemble is real, then it is an extraordinary one, as real SD/Sipo stuff is seldom seen, especially the grey variants.

Happy collecting...

**Milan Gard** · 10-18-2008, 09:59 PM

Hello , thx for nice info

but this all has one mistake:

I cannot it feel

GREAT INFORMATIONS, thanks

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 10:05 PM

If you mean as in to feel the textiles in person, then buy from Stezelberger his cloth sample book. He has had one for sale for donkey's years. When I was very young, I spent a few hours with a Textile company's sample book on uniform cloth, and there one could see quickly that the weight of cloth in caps, tunics, pants and overcoats differed all from each other. The weight of cloth in caps was the lightest, since you have to wear the thing on your head. That is, real German caps...and surely from other craftsmen had to be light and comfortable. If you make a cap of overcoat cloth, it is not really comfortable on your head. You get a head ache and then break your neck. This is a problem for the fakers, since they do not then wear what they make for years on. Nor do collectors. Bob Coleman taught me the trick of weighing caps. Army Tellermuetzen are much heavier than many well made, private purchase officer caps. The former have cork, which is heavy.

I have a hat fetish obviously. When I retire to Vienna, I shall get a job in one of the still thriving headwear stores. My favorite one is Nagy (a good name for Vienna, no?) which has branches in the Wollzeile and an der Freyung near Schottenring. But there are surely nice hat stores in Munich, too; and probably in Salzburg, but I do not go there anymore.

PS Stezelberger appears to have sold his cloth sample book.

**Milan Gard** · 10-18-2008, 10:14 PM

by Friedrich-Berthold

If you mean as in to feel the textiles in person, then buy from Stezelberger his cloth sample book. He has had one for sale for donkey's years. When I was very young, I spent a few hours with a Textile company's sample book on uniform cloth, and there one could see quickly that the weight of cloth in caps, tunics, pants and overcoats differed all from each other. The weight of cloth in caps was the lightest, since you have to wear the thing on your head. That is, real German caps...and surely from other craftsmen had to be light and comfortable. If you make a cap of overcoat cloth, it is not really comfortable on your head. You get a head ache and then break your neck. This is a problem for the fakers, since they do not then wear what they make for years on. Nor do collectors. Bob Coleman taught me the trick of weighing caps. Army Tellermuetzen are much heavier than many well made, private purchase officer caps. The former have cork, which is heavy.

I have a hat fetish obviously. When I retire to Vienna, I shall get a job in one of the still thriving headwear stores. My favorite one is Nagy (a good name for Vienna, no?) which has branches in the Wollzeile and an der Freyung near Schottenring. But there are surely nice hat stores in Munich, too; and probably in Salzburg, but I do not go there anymore.

PS Stezelberger appears to have sold his cloth sample book.

YES, it is what I need, practice. Know you link for his site (Stezelberger)?

and Nagy is singer (Peter Nagy) if I know, am I true?

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 10:15 PM

Here are the cap badges on this SD cap....the patina is correct in my view; the zinc is also of the period, and the Overhoff badges seem to edge out the Deschler in wartime stuff. I wonder if the Deschler firm got bombed out or lost the contract somehow. A lot of what seem to be wartime caps have Overhoff badges in my limited experience.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 10:20 PM

by milan12

YES, it is what I need, practice. Know you link for his site (Stezelberger)?

and Nagy is singer (Peter Nagy) if I know, am I true?

I do not know the singer, but I am sure you are right.

Stezelberger is to be found in google under "relichunter" and "Stezelberger." I think he sold the sample book, but he has had them from time to time. He carries nice hats. He and Shea are now lowering their prices because of the collapse of the US economy, and the stuff is still cheaper here in No. America than in central Europe because the Euro is still strong.

I stupidly failed to buy it from him, wie dumm von mir.

Happy collectings and Gruess nach Maehren. I miss good food very much.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 10-18-2008, 10:28 PM

Stezelberger has this SA high leader's cap (price on request...) for those with cash burning a hole in their pocket amid the world economic crisis...this piece was made by Mueller in Munich (A1/143) and may have been the property of the Reichstatthalter fuer Bayern, Ritter von Epp. Notice the silver (versus alu.) piping as well as the very early RZM tag. The 242 number here is for the retail source, whatever that was....? Were these listed in the Handbuch d. RZM?

Bob Coleman is the authority on these sparkling SA things and he owns other Ritter von Epp stuff.

Happy collecting and happy headwear.

Also, happy world economic crisis and may we all somehow avert the years after 1929 repeating themselves in the 21st century.