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Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

Article about: The shape of the cap does not me feel better, even if I look at the details

  1. #41

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Dear Sir, thank you. You keep better files than I, surely.

    Apropos matters of quality, I append here some images of 1935-6-ish or so NSDAP Kreisleitung cap in its whatever form (....Bob Coleman please help me...) as a comparison to these wartime SS caps. The NSDAP piece is of much superior quality, but was also likely tailor made....

    This cap is on Jeff Clark's NSDAP uniform website and is for sale. So, too, is a Kreisleitung cap with white piping he indirectly got from me, in fact. I do not mean to push other people's stuff, but Clark's website is an intriguing one.

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    damit, basta.

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  3. #42

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Here is an example in Muetzentrikot and also of the SSVT era, ca. 1938. Notice the zinc badges....no neusilber or KupAl here...

    This piece comes from a leading Anglo-Canadian collection. A wonderful, rare cap.

    This piece is not unlike a contract Army Tellermuetze, but it surely 110% spot on. I think that within a year or so of this thing's crafting, the more widely issued caps were given out in the Einheitstuch, but who really knows?
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    damit, basta.

  4. #43

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    your political cap is a good Pre war model

    I wait the answer of Bob because this is a political expert...

  5. #44

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Quote by S.Vestae View Post
    your political cap is a good Pre war model

    I wait the answer of Bob because this is a political expert...
    The cap belongs to Jeff Clark, not to me, though I am tempted.

    The Bender book on caps has the proper nomenclature on NSDAP caps. I think Form I-IV or something of this kind.

    I think this Hoheitszeichen came into use in 1936, but the maker marks in party head wear were forbidden in 1935.

    I also think that leather peaks were phased out ca. 1936 or so in the wake of the four year plan, but that is also my own silly theory.

    Such features as leather peaks were forbidden in the SS, I think, in 1938.

    Our friend d'Alquen has an order to this effect from Heini H.

    But Bob Coleman is the expert on the types of party caps.

    I follow these caps because they have always interested me, and because of the cross over effects of other NSDAP caps and SS caps.
    damit, basta.

  6. #45

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    J. Clark describes his cap above as Form III, pre-1939, i.e. the introduction of white piping for the Kreisleitung.

    There are some remarkable caps there for sale, especially the varieties with the embroidery directly rendered into the velvet band...

    if nothing else, do look at the images as a point of reference. I include one here for a later Kreisleitung cap with the extra Stickerei...

    and....to be entirely historical and not antiquarian....


    no doubt, a little piece of luxury paid for by contributions to the Winterhilfswerk or also through Aryanization of non-Aryan assets.

    In this vein, I was reading about Christian Weber in Munich, and his practices in skimming the public finances...what a guy.
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 10-26-2008 at 11:38 PM.
    damit, basta.

  7. #46
    ?

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    decades back I owned a near-mint w-ss em cap. it shared this one's gray paper s'band tho the lining was, I think, also gray(ish) and not this dun-colored material.

    the interesting thing is that it wore not ss but HEER insignia - and the only holes in the capband were from these! maybe the Muetzenarbeiter was color-blind. or, more folks than we'd like to imagine just ... didn't ... care all that much.

    of course, we've all seen stranger - in fact, much stranger - anomalies than this. textbook, schmecktbuch! (doesn't mean you'd want to own 'em, though, I'll grant you.)

  8. #47
    ?

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    sorry! I'd missed some of this thread's sequencing. the cap I had ref'd was in fact exactly like F-B's in post #37. yes - a bit fragile in the materials dept. and yes, light in hand compared to the replicas... BUT! nice shape that "spoke" volumes. and, unfortunately, no longer mine :--- /

  9. #48

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Quote by vady View Post
    sorry! I'd missed some of this thread's sequencing. the cap I had ref'd was in fact exactly like F-B's in post #37. yes - a bit fragile in the materials dept. and yes, light in hand compared to the replicas... BUT! nice shape that "spoke" volumes. and, unfortunately, no longer mine :--- /

    Thank you. Your intervention has great merit. I had a silken officer's cap in grey with a slate grey inside and rayon piping. I sold it in the early 1970s to a major collector, but I wish I had it today. It had a silk cap cover in field grey.

    I also think that perhaps a lot of caps were stripped of their badges when uniforms were discarded as part of denazification and then got re-decorated by GIs.

    One reaches a point in life when these memories become especially powerful, as in the case of pastry in the life of Proust, I guess, or Rosebud in Citizen Kane.

    Finally, I should observe that many or nearly all of the images I have used here did I secure via the marvel of the internet. My warm thanks to the owners for their generosity with these images.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 10-27-2008 at 02:05 AM.
    damit, basta.

  10. #49

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Excellent thread, with great insight. The Black-piped visor owned by Jeff Clark is a form III (36-39) Kreis-level private-purchase visor. I have personally inspected all Jeffs hats, and they are all 100% (I was even present during the photography of said hats).

    It is not uncommon to see Form III NSDAP visors that are private-purchase models--ie, no RZM tag, just a tailor label. However, w/ the Form IV models, it is very rare to see private-purchase models, and the ones that one does see are for either very-high ranked Officials, or are Form III's upgraded to conform to the 1939 regs (the wreath, gold eagle, chincord, etc.) It is very hard to find untouched M-36 models due to this, and Jeff's is one of them--note the leather visor as well.

    Personally, I prefer private-purchase political hats (whether HJ, SS, NSDAP, etc)--the quality is most often much better than the RZM "bells and whistles" hats that a majority of collectors prefer.

  11. #50

    Default re: Waffen-SS NCO? schirmutze

    Thanks for the above. I suppose my comment as to quality is a tangent, but such offers a corrective to popular taste.

    I repeat that part of the phenomenon is grounded in the rationalization of the clothing economy because of the imperative of the Four Year Plan (1936 onward...) to use more Ersatz materials. Such things were found in the headwear of the era 1914-1918, too. In this connection, the Austrian/German large colored volumes from Militaria Verlag/Stefan Rest/Wien depict the caps of the old army and the Reichswehr in detail.

    The cap described by Mr. Stonemint above is much nicer than 70% of the caps of this earlier and the later era, hence their attraction.

    I hope that Mr. Stonemint will open his bank account wide to snap up these remarkable caps and keep them together. I should buy back the 08/15 Kreisleitung one that was once mine. It was a piece I first saw in 1981....

    Of course, I also suppose that the collapse of the US and European economies will also result in much material coming into circulation and I shall leave to others the question of trends in prices.

    The latter is too droll for my impaired mind.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 10-27-2008 at 04:03 AM.
    damit, basta.

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