A lot of supposition friend.
I would like to see notarized statements from surviving vets with documented accounts of the events.
I am not saying that your dad stretched the truth about the items.
I have interviewed scores and scores of vets. A few embellished their recollections of events. A not uncommon occurrence. "The older we get the better we were."
As far as selling them "back" to the family, if you could find a family member. They don't want the stuff. WWII is not something the average family of Japanese want to remember. Memories of Japans militaristic adventures during the 20th century are not what the Japanese prefer to think about or be reminded of. They are good people that were led down the road of destruction by their military leaders with the full knowledge of emperor Hirohito.
I must say that I found the young ladies of Japan quite delightful in the late 60s on my only visit there. Didn't care for the guys (another story) but the women were great.
People use to believe that "families" would do or pay anything to get old swords back. The vast majority do not care.
I wish you all of the luck in the world in your research of the events that led your father to acquire the items.
09-09-2013 04:51 PM
I know how it feels to have people not believe your family history. It's happened to me on online forums before. However, After I supplied a link to military.com and his story was among the top hero's accounts , people kept their opinions to themselves. Unless you have relevant proof , a story remains what it is..a story.
The items you show are nice , and with sufficient provenance they could be priceless . What I am confused about is the fact you want to sell it or give it away. If you are so proud of your father, then why not honor your father and value these items by keeping them within your family?
I have a few very valuable heirlooms that have stayed in my family for several generations and one item has been in my family since 1640. I would be very upset if I found out my grandfather sold that item instead of keeping it with the family. I know these are tough times for some, money-wise, but that is no excuse, in my opinion. I've been in very hard times in my life but I have NEVER had the slightest thought of selling my heirlooms, EVER! You should be ashamed of yourself and I can't imagine what your father would think. If anything, you could put it on LOAN to a museum TEMPORARILY .
Sorry if I have come off a bit harsh but this stuff really hits home with me.
Bloody hell Pat, looking at the timings on the postings you've done, you must be the world speed typing champion....
I bet the 'r' in pat r stands for "rapido" don't it?
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Just to ease your mind I copied and pasted from the other forum.....LOL
Thanks Dean for your input..... My Dad's stuff means the world to me and I have many things passed down like an 1873 Springfield Carbine..... and tons of other stuff that I would never part with....... My reason for even thinking of selling is that I believe my stuff to be true artifacts and should be somewhere besides in a box of old stuff from my Dad...... I have a son that will get everything when I die but this is the one thing that I think should be either returned to the family ( if they would want to honor it as I have ) or to sell it to a collector...... I am old (51) ... I pretty much live check to check...my son wants to go to college... My two daughters need all kind of stuff.... my house needs repairs...my transmission is going out & I want to go fishing. lol... Seriously my Dad was a patriot that would stand with the best and I believe he would be proud of my intentions.... He would want this to be where it can be enjoyed by all patriots and veterans....... where better place than some proud collectors collection where it will be honored and treated the way it should be..... I know what my Dad told me as a child and I believe it with all my heart..... I have looked at least 10 years to get where I am now in this journey..... There have been hundreds of collectors that did not believe such a thing could exist....EVERYBODY said a plane could not crash into a ship and not blow up...... I must admit it seemed like a valid point..... but I still know what my Dad said so I kept looking for proof that it happened.... My Dad was on three ships during his enlistment and I had no Idea as to which one this happened on so I started researching and completely eliminated the first two.... Then came Sara.... after exhausting research I could find no instance of one not blowing up....yes they were attacked but all pictures online had them burning..... Then I found a newspaper article that had been recently published by a man that said he survived a Kamikaze attack aboard the Sara... I contacted him and he put me in touch with others and now I have spoken to a man several times that 100% for sure has pictures he took of the unexploded plane. The exact plane that a few years ago all the collectors and experts that I could find SAID DID'T EXIST....COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED..... No I have proved the impossible..... What if I had listened and gave up......... So to everyone following this story.... I did not just show up here last week....this has been a 10 year journey....I did not come here till I had proof that what I have could at least.....MAYBE.... be real....
I Thank everyone that has helped me get this far with my quest.... and guys please understand that until I go to this reunion and talk to men that were there and see the stuff for myself and hear their testimony about my stuff.....until then.... I simply have to believe my Dad is telling the truth...... not that I disbelieve your comments....they are great and what has gotten me this far....thanks... Everybody's first thought of this is there is no way artifacts came of pilot, that all planes burned.... well I proved my Dad didn't lie about that.....the absolute most unbelievable fact of the whole story is true...... now all I have to prove is the album came off the pilot..... I will let everyone know Oct. 5th..... Again thank you all for your support in my quest for the truth..... Pat
To anyone here interested in going to the reunion for the Saratoga it is all week but I will be there the first two days.... Oct. 4th and 5th and will have my stuff with me.... If anyone is maybe thinking of having my stuff in your collection someday it would be really cool for you to come and see what I see at the same time and you can certify the articles anyway you like..... so anyony interested or that might want to see history in the making...... please come
Crown Plaza Riverfront Jacksonville Fl. Ph 904-398-8800 they have rooms for the reunion for $99 a night which is a great deal.... just say you are there for Saratoga reunion....
These artifacts would not have survived in this state. While it may be that your father was on the Saratoga, which did receive Kamikaze attacks, the story is untenable. The footage and explanation of plane 6 on the youtube video does not in anyway codify your assertions about the flag and photos...
I would suggest there isn't any further commentary on this one due to, as I see it, one of two possibilities:
A. This individual is trying to hawk off items that he truly believes are attached to this story. (Misapprehensions are not uncommon to our species)
B. This individual is trying to get the story to work by sending out feelers into professional rings as to make his story more plausible.
For these reasons I suggest any forum member think twice before giving information that could be used by this poster to make his case more plausible.
The thought of this guy pawning these things off onto some unknowing veteran or his family really disturbs me. Few things sicken me more than people taking advantage of the elderly... Hopefully that doesn't happen.
This is to much for me- i have not read more than 50% and then i got a headache.
Looking forward to hear what more patient collectors have to say.
Collect ROA, Cossack, Schuma and other WW2 Volunteer militaria.
"Be Humble and kind, for you may find that it was Odin you entertained"
I see there are people on here too that just want to bash me..... personally I am not trying to sell it.... I said I might.. or I might return it.... I might keep it.... I am not sure..... Why won't anyone one here just try and help.... What do the letters say???? That would be a huge help.... is that something no one wants to tell me.... There seems to be someone on here that can read everything I have BUT the letters.... Why won't Anybody tell me what they say... The pics are very clear.....
And as far as your remarks James ...you are sick thinking I would take advantage of old people... and as far as the condition of my articles.... What part of " I have talked to the men there over the phone and he assured me my dads story is true.... The plane...or at least the cockpit stayed in tact and did not BLOW UP OR BURN AND HE PERSONALLY TOOK PICTURES OF IT." don't you understand....
As far as people that would like to help please stay tuned ....
This was posted by a guy on gunboards along with my response....
For what it's worth, I remember a friend of mine, a WW2 marine who said that they took plain "Meatball " flags and copied captured flags , to sell to the Navy guys.You see the Navy guys were always on the ship and when the Marines were re-embarked , back to the ship, the Sailors pestered them for Souvenirs,[Memories or rememberances in French]. That was the only way the Sailors could get anything so the Marines, being great friends with the Sailors, decided to have a little fun and make some money at that. Some of the Flags were nothing but jibberish but some were real good ones. I'm sure having the Emporer sign one was worth quite alot more than one just from local yokals.
Thanks Josh and I am getting a different view now on the flag....GunBB probably has it right about the flag .... He has a plausible explanation as to how it came about(see a few post ago)...... That is the best explanation I have heard... If you read my past post on the flag I never said it wasn't a fake... I only insisted that my Dad had it on that ship...... he did not get it later..... and if what GunBB says is true which it seem to be something I would have no problem believing... I accept that..... But I do firmly believe the album is off the pilot..... my Dad would not have gotten that wrong.....
Hopefully there will be proof of that when I go to the reunion.... Thanks again GunBB and Josh....