Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

A minor grail find for my collection today.

Article about: As some of you will have noticed, I have the motto of the Welch Regiment as my signature, which translates as "Better Death Not Shame"or as the regiment preferred it "Rather D

  1. #1

    Default A minor grail find for my collection today.

    As some of you will have noticed, I have the motto of the Welch Regiment as my signature, which translates as "Better Death Not Shame"or as the regiment preferred it "Rather Death Than Dishonour" which was awarded to them in 1831 along with the right to wear the Prince of Wales Plumes, though for an unknown reason it was spelled incorrectly as Gwell Angau NEU Chywilydd rather than Gwell Angau NA Chywilydd. The early spelling translates as Better Death OR Dishonour. The misspelled motto continued in use until circa the late Victorian period and all the examples I have of it when it became a collar badge in 1909 have the correct NA spelling, but it was worn as a cap badge and on buttons with the incorrect NEU version.

    The misspelled version is hard to find, but today whilst out for a jolly to a local antiques center I spotted a swagger stick for the Welch and you will probably have realised by now, or got bored and gone to another thread, that it had the incorrect early spelling of the motto. I had been after an example of the misspelled motto, and finding this today has allowed me to tick the box on my long list of Grail items, though I still hope to find the cap badge as well.

    Very pleased I am, chuffed in fact.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welch regiment cane #1.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	211.0 KB 
ID:	680196   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welch regiment cane #3.jpg 
Views:	85 
Size:	216.5 KB 
ID:	680198  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welch regiment cane #4.jpg 
Views:	88 
Size:	205.8 KB 
ID:	680199   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welch regiment cane #5.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	213.7 KB 
ID:	680200  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welch regiment cane #2.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	184.5 KB 
ID:	680197  
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default

    And an example of the correctly spelled version worn as a collar badge.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Welsh osd collar obverse.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	212.2 KB 
ID:	680201  
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  4. #3

    Default

    And I think that you have every right to be chuffed!!!!! If I come accross any Welsh bits, I will let you know!!
    Cheers MR
    PS Not bored, interested!!!

  5. #4
    mpw
    mpw is online now
    ?

    Default

    Yes, very interesting and unusual find. Just goes to show what careful and close observations can turn up. Good luck with your quest in securing a matching cap badge.

    Mark.

  6. #5

    Default

    top find Jerry, i bet you're made up with it!..
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  7. #6

    Default

    Magnificent find Jerry, very happy that this did not slip past you.

    Tom

  8. #7

    Default

    well done.

  9. #8

    Default

    Nice one!
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  10. #9

    Default

    Very nice sir , love a good welsh item .

  11. #10

    Default

    Thanks to all for commenting, much appreciated.

    I failed to mention another interesting point about the badge in that it uses the C spelling version of Welch, which was not officially introduced, or reintroduced depending on your point of view, until 1920. For a long time both the Welch and the Royal Welch Fusiliers had been arguing for what they saw as a return to the proper use of the C in Welch as opposed to the S in Welsh, but the War Dept used the S version, hence in WWI (&WWII) it was the Welsh divisions and the Welsh Guards etc.. Both regiments claimed that traditionally it was Welch and continued to use the C in internal correspondence etc and even produced evidence to back up this claim, though the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny, as a mistranscribed or even fraudulent letter produced to support the claim shows that it is a poor copy of the original document. I'll continue digressing for a little while longer before I return to the main reason for this post, and say that after the official use of the C in Welch in 1920 in only lasted until 2006 and when before were amalgamated as part of the current regiment, which is known as the Royal Welsh with a S, so it seems that the traditionalists lost in the end.

    Anyway, to return to the C in Welch on this badge, first thoughts might be that it is post 1920, bearing in mind what I posted above, but that would be a mistake, as for both regiments, the Volunteer Battalions were allowed more leeway or perhaps were under less control of the WD and often, though not always, used the C spelling for their badges in spite of the official spelling and as such used, as in this case the C version prior to its official adoption in 1920.

    Just to mention that the ball topped canes/sticks such as this are typically late Victorian and mostly pre WWI, though some would still be in use into that period.

    Another example of the distain for the official spelling in use by the Vol.Bn's can be found in this other recent acquisition of mine, a Scarlet Frock for one of the Vol. Bn.'s of the RWF, which also uses the C spelling on its buttons and dates to at least a dozen years before the official adoption of it in 1920. I also have a Welch regiment document in my collection from 1919 which also has the C on the initial entry page.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RWF scarlet frock button detail 2.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	217.2 KB 
ID:	680350   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	welch reg cert 2.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	212.0 KB 
ID:	680351  

    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A great find today!

    In Cloth Headgear
    04-15-2013, 12:04 AM
  2. Walk find today.

    In Battlefield history and relics
    01-08-2011, 08:29 PM
  3. Aircraft part find today.

    In Attic & Old Barn Finds
    09-27-2010, 10:57 PM
  4. Barn find today.

    In Attic & Old Barn Finds
    06-02-2009, 11:51 PM
  5. 12-27-2008, 01:19 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •