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DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

Article about: Hi all. I've actually had this in my collection for quite a while, thought it was time to post it here for some feedback. I don't really collect prototypes, this just happened to be in a col

  1. #21

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    Overhoff knew very well that Werkschar had not to use a leather tab with the Werkschar-buckle
    and so they would never have attached one. They also knew very well that Werkschar had to use
    black leather and not brown. The RZM never would have agreed such a buckle, not as a regular
    buckle and not at all as a prototype!!
    Furthermore: I told when the buckle was introduced, so why asking an eventual permission
    in early 1936 and attach a wrong color leather tab?? By the way: this color brown was not ever allowed
    to be worn by any political organization that used brown. The official brown color was a darker-brown
    (dunkelbraun/Schokoladebraun), and not this very light colored brown! Political leaders used a lighter
    brown, which is known as hellbraun/rehbraun (brown with a tone of red). Whatever, something is not right!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #22
    ?

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    Dzyner, many thanks for your additional photos!

    I am a little bit unsure but it looks like a one piece construction. There's obviously no assembly seam between the plate and the box at the edge of the buckle. Am I right? If so the plate must be a part of the box and was folded over after the catch was stamped into the plate. In that case it is possible that we have here a proper prototype buckle by Overhoff & Cie. If it is not a one piece construction I doubt also that this crude plate was fixed by Overhoff to the buckle.

    But before putting this buckle in a particular drawer it would be interesting to hear if the design of the cog wheel goes with other known Overhoff buckles - David have you checked this already?

    The leather tab makes indeed no sense!

    All in all questions about questions...

    Best,
    Guido

  4. #23

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    To be short: yes, Overhoff was well aware of regulations. They would not have used a
    light brown tab to a Werkschar-buckle. And surely when it was RZM related (as this
    buckle), they would have been carefull, as they did not want to loose their RZM-permission(s).

    They answered practically all of my questions when I visited them various times in the 1970's!
    I had a rather good contact with them. I learned a lot through them (many older employees
    came by to meet me there). They solved many of my questions and "problems", especially
    about gold anodizing and the differences between the various metals.

    Yes, I have seen at least one prototype during one of my visits - but as they had many perfect
    buckles in their safe after so many years I cannot remember which one it was - and when making
    a prototype the one piece construction would not have been such a crude plate. Anyway not
    when one being from Overhoff. If one would like to get an okay, they came up with the best
    possible product. That's why they got the allowance to first produce SS enlisted ranks neusilber
    buckles, and the SS first leader's buckles!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  5. #24

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    Just want to post this for later reference before I go to work, will comment later
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M4_27 Steel Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid 1940 Tab.JPG 
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Size:	126.3 KB 
ID:	457880  
    Ben

  6. #25

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    PS if some one is good with computers can they photo merge the two tabs side by side both facing the direction as per the one above, thank in advance And if anyone has a Overhoff DAF that would also be good
    Ben

  7. #26

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    I checked my material related to Overhoff:
    None of the (perfect) buckles had a sort of prototype tag with a wax seal, just
    some with paper tags and article-number included (see for a sample Angolia, page 201).

    I do not know of any Overhoff sales page that shows the Werkschar-buckle. The buckles I
    have seen did not include any Werkschar-type of buckle!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  8. #27

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    Name:  M4_27 Steel Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid 1940 Tab.JPG
Views: 121
Size:  34.8 KBName:  daf-buckle-tab-tag-3.jpg
Views: 116
Size:  30.2 KB
    There ya go Ben.
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  9. #28

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    **
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2013-01-28_204058.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	43.7 KB 
ID:	457893  

  10. #29

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    Well guys, this is great, a good discussion, this is what threads should be like lol So guys in effect now we have a buckle left wide open some like it some dont. I tend to break it down to its component parts. Wim has done a cracking job looking into the actual records so on paper the buckle should not exist. The tab, Dyzner just a question on the leather does it have the 75 year old smell? For those guys that handle tabs and old leather to me it has a distinct smell which only time can give so does it smell correct? I like the stitching on the tab (I know it can be faked well with period three ply thread) but just from the tightness of the stitch and it looks like the correct three ply thread from the pics. The buckle itself looks like a DAF buckle made by Overhoff, I googled DAF by Overhoff and looked at one on another site, and if my memory serves me right David has a gold coloured DAF by this maker. In ref to the catch, I called it a prototype as at the time thats what came to me, so if genuine is it a variation, was a demo sales piece taken around by the Overhoff sales guys? I must admit I must agree with Guido, from the pictures the catch itself looks like it was part of the buckle and folded over and much neater than it looked on the first pics. In ref to the tag again who know!!! the writing looks good to me but I am no expert on war time written German, could anyone actually decypher the text guys? Dyzner, and chance of a good clear shot of the writing so it can be translated? This my take on this buckle guys thus far after all have had their input, again cracking thread and if anyone has any plausible theories please chip in
    Ben

  11. #30

    Default Re: DAF Prototype Buckle with Tag and Wax Seal for review...

    It's certainly got me intrigued, after seeing better photos it looks to be well made.
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

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