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Army "Besten Schutzen" Hirschfanger and Luftwaffe Forestry sidearm...

Article about: I recently acquired this Heer Besten Schutzen hirschfanger at a local gun show along with a Luftwaffe Forestry sidearm. Here are some pics. Annoyed from this ads?   Len

  1. #1
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    Default Army "Besten Schutzen" Hirschfanger and Luftwaffe Forestry sidearm...

    I recently acquired this Heer "Besten Schutzen" hirschfanger at a local gun show along with a Luftwaffe Forestry sidearm. Here are some pics.



    Len
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  3. #2

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    Hi Len..nice Hirschfanger and the Luftwaffe Forestry side arm..which is a first for me..more so deemed a bayonet type... the name Waffen-Loesche belongs to a distributor that Arthur Wingen " Chromolit" supplied to. The K98 guys will have to comment on the hanger since there are so many different variants to be seen.

    Chromolit produced the Bayonet with Stag Scales and the Luftwaffe forestry cutlass..for Waffen-Loesche. These are 2 nice finds..thanks for sharing. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3
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    Critical note about the Cutlass
    IMO:
    This Hirschfanger appearance is totally not what you would expect from a German Hirschfanger/Cutlass.
    I have seen dozens and they Always had, or a Animal or a stylish clamshell, never an Army Eagle.
    They have a tradition of a leather scabbard, never seen a scabbard like this one.
    The makers logo is on the back.
    Why should the Army award a Cutlass like this?

    So to make it a bit shorter: i have my concerns about this one...although it looks realy nice i think its a totally fantasy piece.
    But i realy hope that someone proves me wrong!

    Regards,
    Ger

  5. #4
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    A "Fantasy Piece"? I think not. This style of hirschfanger is pure WKC and appears in their catalog as #823. The accompanying catalog pic and pic of an actual WKC hirschfanger with I believe the Baden shield show no animal motifs and if you ask me the clamshells are rather stylish. Note the clamshell's rope detail around the edge that's also present on mine. Pure WKC. This may not be what you would expect from a prize weapon sanctioned by the Oberkommando Heer but this was not ordered by the Army. It's an intra unit award that was ordered by the unteroffiziers of the first company Regt. 105. They could do whatever they wished.
    Len
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    Quote by gerrit View Post
    Critical note about the Cutlass
    IMO:
    This Hirschfanger appearance is totally not what you would expect from a German Hirschfanger/Cutlass.
    I have seen dozens and they Always had, or a Animal or a stylish clamshell, never an Army Eagle.
    They have a tradition of a leather scabbard, never seen a scabbard like this one.
    The makers logo is on the back.
    Why should the Army award a Cutlass like this?

    So to make it a bit shorter: i have my concerns about this one...although it looks realy nice i think its a totally fantasy piece.
    But i realy hope that someone proves me wrong!

    Regards,
    Ger

  6. #5

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    Len,

    I know Gary Southgate loved the piece so there really is nothing more that I could add. That being said, the quality of this hirschfänger is apparent, the fittings, the beautiful blade etch, the wonderfully knobby stag. It all reeks of a well-done period item to me. The scabbard is unusual but I love that while it resembles a steel KS98 bayonet scabbard, it still has the acorn as a frog lug. The fact it's a presented item to a specific unit makes it really special IMHO.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for the kind comments Billy!
    Last edited by len s; 10-05-2014 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #7

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    That's a proper and nice Luftwaffe Dress frog for your Luft Forestor's I have always wanted one of these cost is getting prohibitive on these as they were always a rare sidearm. I would expect to see this Luft KS98 type frog on it. Nice find. timothy

  9. #8
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    Quote by Billy G View Post
    Len,

    I know Gary Southgate loved the piece so there really is nothing more that I could add. That being said, the quality of this hirschfänger is apparent, the fittings, the beautiful blade etch, the wonderfully knobby stag. It all reeks of a well-done period item to me. The scabbard is unusual but I love that while it resembles a steel KS98 bayonet scabbard, it still has the acorn as a frog lug. The fact it's a presented item to a specific unit makes it really special IMHO.
    Well Billy although Gary loves it, i had my concerns about this one from the start, so please explain this to me:
    Why is there a mistake in the etch? the abbrevation of Unteroffizier in German is UFFZ.
    This blade says: UTFFZ. that is not a mistake a German would allow, for sure the blade would not have been accepted.
    As usual the devil's in the detail.

    Best
    Ger
    Last edited by gerrit; 07-08-2016 at 07:19 AM.

  10. #9

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    Ger,

    If there is a gramatical error in the German language on the blade etch, that certainly would cause an issue in my mind. I can't speak to the veracity of the etch's abbreviation or not. Is it possible that the abbreviation could be something utilized regionally & not necessarily proper Hochdeutsch?

  11. #10
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    Billy there is a difference in "speaking" and official German military abbreviations, the official army list contains:
    Ul. Ulanen
    Uffz. Unteroffizier
    Untffz. Unteroffizier
    UR Ulanen-Regiment
    USch Unteroffizierschule
    UVSch Unteroffiziervorschule

    I have my concerns that an officially made Shooting price like this one doesnt have the official proper abbrevation on the blade, just like i have my doubt that a Hirschfänger like this doesnt have the traditional leather scabbard, and in this case with beatiful fittings which should fit the beautiful dagger.
    The scabbard seems very out of place.
    But then again these are my concerns and is my opinion and everyone can make mistakes.

    Ger

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