11-29-2014 08:51 PM
Hi naptime, shame about the grip but it still looks a nice piece, I know nothing about bayonets but I have seen a similar looking wkc maker mark on a 1st model kriegs so you could be right about it being pre ww11, aswell I notice it has staples and not screws to keep the fittings on the scabbard like the transitional 1st luft which was made of a soft material, this could also indicate that its a real early bayonet but im not sure, hopefully someone who knows more will have a look. Nice bayonet tho.
Just looked on lakesidetrader and theres one on there with some good info on it.
It is nice to see a rare Badisches Polizei-Seitengewehr! As with most police sidearms, they are not really bayonets, but they aren't swords or daggers either. So, I guess as far as collectors are concerned, they fall into the "bayonet" category more neatly than the others. By not having a lug slot for affixing to a rifle, the allies did not consider it a "weapon of war" and therefor did not need to be inventoried under the rules of the Treaty of Versailles. Shame about the broken grip. On the down side, I feel it will hurt the value quite a bit, as it will be very difficult to repair/replace. On the upside, it is on the reverse, so it will still display well.
I know Billy G has a very nice complete set, maybe he'll share his and fill in any info I may have overlooked.
Thanks for the kind words, I don't think you missed much at all & I'm sure you've seen your way around some of these blades as well.
I just posted on GD about this same item, here's a cut & paste:
Early WKC Baden Police Bayonet? - GermanDaggers.com
I have a WKC Baden Polizei bayonet as well. Although your has a 3 rivet grip, I believe this is in no way dispositive regarding the time of this bayonet's manufacture & use. From what I've seen, WKC used a 3 rivet grip even well beyond the Weimar era. The maker mark yours has was used during the NS zeit so it's quite possible this example was carried until the consolidation order for the unification of the Polizei was given.
I always appreciated this model bayonet's place in history, given it's unusual appearance. The hooked nose look was specifically so this bayonet coild not be affixed to a rifle &, of course, considered a weapon under the Versailles Treaty. In reality, this item is probably more of a "short sword" given it's overall size & heft.
The majority of these I've seem have been in excellent condition, they must have been made very well because they do seem to hold up to time well. I did own another years ago, a long model with the double oval maker mark, but I sold it off to a collector friend to fund other pursuits. From what George Wheeler has told me, there was also a gilt model as well.
The broken reverse grip will undoubtedly hurt this one's value, most likely because finding a replacement grip would be near impossible IMHO. That said, it is still a very presentable example of a scarce seitengewehr & one that is probably missing from many collections. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Gent's excuse my ignorance but what makes this a "Baden" Police bayonets" I am asking because that is where the Hettel's(My GGF) is from and I also have a Baden M1896 Picklehaube and if there is something else I can add to my Baden collection ,well there is a great excuse!!!!!
This bayonet's style is similar to a number of other German bayonets & short swords of the early & mid 20th century, especially with the recurred crossguard & leather scabbard with steel plated fittings. What signifies this as a Baden Polizei Seitengewehr is the hooked pommel which was done as a specific way of avoiding the restrictive terms of the Versailles treaty. Since there was no way in hell this could be connected to a rifle, it was not a weapon of war & was not prohibited. But as we all know this didn't stop the Prussians from redoing the Weimar Polizei bayonets, some of which were slotted.
This bayonet has a specific place in the history of German edged weapons. Although generally not cheap, they are very hefty items & are well made so you get a lot for your money. As if finding one was enough, the frogs are even harder to locate, the knots almost impossible.
Thanks for the great info everyone. Curious if anyone has any photographic evidence of these being worn during the 30s. I spent a few hours yesterday trying to learn anything and aside from some info on Lakeside and Wittman (both have similar items for sale), there's very little out there. I've always had mixed emotions about any of the plain dress daggers. Aesthetically, they aren't as interesting as other third reich daggers so I don't invest much in them. This Baden was an exception since it was so odd and rather long.
The Badisches Polizei-Seitengewehr was designed specifically for, and used exclusively by, the Badisches Polizei from around 1930 - 1936. After WWI, every German Republic had it's own police force and each had a different, distinct sidearm, the most well known being the Prussian Polizei-Seitengewehr that was modified and used throughout the Nazi period by all German police forces.
The Badisches Polizei-Seitengewehr was modeled after an earlier sidearm used by their imperial border guard. So, I guess it was kind of a "Traditional" style specific to Baden. Here are a few pictures of earlier models I found on-line: