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DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

Article about: by Sleepwalker Romania gets vz24 bayontes since 1941, not after the war. But the Romanians refresh a lot of this bayontes after 1945 (but not all). It is a matter of fakt, that wie have not

  1. #1

    Default DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Just got this one. Looks exactly like the DOT42-3 WaA marked ones but is commercially marked. You guys think it is war time commercial? Doug
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  3. #2

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Hi Doug,, that is a decent conditioned bayonet you have,, but Im not sure of the time period. Be patient someone whos knowledge is bayonets will chime in! Larry

  4. #3

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    What year is marked (2 digits) on the frog stud?-the same pattern was made after the war for export-see below.
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  5. #4

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Quote by lithgow View Post
    What year is marked (2 digits) on the frog stud?-the same pattern was made after the war for export-see below.
    Mine is blued with out the final polish and was made with no barrel ring like the DOT42-3s. There are no markings on the grip tanges either. No markings of any kind anywhere I can see. There are no other markings on the frog stud. I particularly like the really nice bevel on the edges of the frog stud. Thanks, Doug
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  6. #5

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    The Czech factories (Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka) at Brno and (Povázská) Bystrica under the Germans were both engaged in manufacturing bayonets for the Wehrmacht. With scabbards that (so far) seem to only to have the Waffenamts from the HWaA inspectorate that is seen with the arms made at Brno. (Along with an observation that in the prewar period that some scabbards had been subcontracted.) With the bayonet here otherwise appearing to be the same (the machining marks) as the second batch from Bystrica (ie: blued - no muzzle ring) that is almost always seen with an Eagle/A80 on the ricasso. But not 100 % of the time as it seems that some very small number of them did not. And a scabbard that has a (Brno) Eagle/63 on the frog stud. But only with (give or take) 50% (60/40 ?) of that group of bayonets with the other half being unmarked. FP

  7. #6

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Quote by Frogprince View Post
    The Czech factories (Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka) at Brno and (Povázská) Bystrica under the Germans were both engaged in manufacturing bayonets for the Wehrmacht. With scabbards that (so far) seem to only to have the Waffenamts from the HWaA inspectorate that is seen with the arms made at Brno. (Along with an observation that in the prewar period that some scabbards had been subcontracted.) With the bayonet here otherwise appearing to be the same (the machining marks) as the second batch from Bystrica (ie: blued - no muzzle ring) that is almost always seen with an Eagle/A80 on the ricasso. But not 100 % of the time as it seems that some very small number of them did not. And a scabbard that has a (Brno) Eagle/63 on the frog stud. But only with (give or take) 50% (60/40 ?) of that group of bayonets with the other half being unmarked. FP
    So, what do you think, during or after the war? Doug

  8. #7

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Hi Doug,, from what Fred is saying it seems pre-war or "during",, if i understand his wording correctly. Fred points out the 2 towns involved ( under German occupation) in the making of these type of bayonets. Either pre-war or "During'.,, regards Larry

  9. #8

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Hi Doug,, from what Fred is saying it seems pre-war or "during",, if i understand his wording correctly. Fred points out the 2 towns involved ( under German occupation) in the making of these type of bayonets. Either pre-war or "During'.,, regards Larry
    My general impression of this, compairing it to my DOT42, is that it is just a cut above it. That kind of puts it ahead of the DOT42, in my mind, like it was commercially made for some nonmilitary organization or user, perhaps out of prewar forgings that they had laying around. I'm thinking that the military got wind of this and then got the ballance diverted to the military in 42-3 untill all the prewar blanks were used up. Just some thoughts and impressions. I am trying to get some information from the Czech collectors at the moment. We will see if there is any information available still. Doug

  10. #9

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    To try and clarify what I was saying: The CZ factory at Brno was in operation in the 1920’s. With the CZ factory at Bystrica later, and in a completely different location (ie: Slovakia).

    Both made Waffenamted (different HWaA inspectorates) full muzzle ring Vz 24 style bayonets for the Wehrmacht with phosphate (Parkerized) blades and muzzle rings in the Czech fashion with bright metal handles. With both having the Brno area WaA 63 Waffenamts on the scabbards. (As far as I know scabbards were not made in the Bystrica factory with German Army/Wehrmacht Waffenamts.) There is no question that the later blued, no muzzle ring variants from Bystrica were well made. But to me the ‘cross hatching’ type of finish seen on some suggests a (very) slightly less standard of manufacture than comparable bayonets from Brno.

    Not just the Wehrmacht were customers for CZ bayonets. With especially Romania also being a wartime good customer of CZ, as well as before the war. And we see some other marking conventions. Such as the “945” (Brno) number code Vz 24 bayonets (like those seen on the early G 33/40’s) on some of the early wartime export CZ bayonets etc. With some late ‘crossover’ bayonets also being reported, that I haven’t seen myself, but seem to be reasonable from what was reported.

    With my point being that at some point while Brno was busy making bayonets for others - Bystrica seems to have stepped in and made bayonets for the German Army/Wehrmacht. Most likely for just one or two years (give or take) circa 1940/1941. With Brno (letter code “dot”) getting back into the picture in 1942, and early 1943. With the last known production run being the “dot” coded Vz 24 (with muzzle ring) bayonets in 1943 for Romania - that other than being blued were identical to the prewar bayonets. Fred

  11. #10

    Default Re: DOT42-3 like commercial Czech Bayonet Wartime?

    Just for future reference purposes, I found an old image that I had of the obverse side (from the Circle-Circle/Z marking) of a later period bayonet from Bystrica that shows the Eagle/A80 Waffenamt. Unlike the bayonet that started this thread which is in really nice condition, this one is very worn and at the other other end of the spectrum showing pitting and a considerable loss of finish. Although I think that it may help to show off to a better advantage the ‘cross hatching’ type of tool markings that are seen with many examples from this TR period maker. Fred
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