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Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

Article about: Picked up this german firemens dress bayonet, scabbard and frog. The bayonets tip is a little dulled but overall nice condition. The blade is marked KARL HENKEL BIELEFELD and the frog is mar

  1. #1

    Default Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Picked up this german firemens dress bayonet, scabbard and frog. The bayonets tip is a little dulled but overall nice condition. The blade is marked KARL HENKEL BIELEFELD and the frog is marked CARL HENKEL BIELEFELD. C or K for first letter? The blade also says SOLINGEN. No dates; how does one estimate the age of this style bayonet?
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  3. #2

    Default Re: Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Joseph,

    What you have is a Third Reich era fireman's dress bayonet with the 25 cm blade. The blade is marked by a distributor or retail seller of equipment. The company Carl Henkel, Bielefeld, still exists & still sells fire department ephemera.

    With respect to our question as to whether the name is Karl or Carl, I believe it was spelled Carl on nearly every bayonet I've seen by Henkel. When I started collecting these bayonets about 12 years ago, I noticed that every once in a while I found one marked Karl, these were all earlier type production so I believe they were an initial run that may or may not have misspelled the name. Interesting too that the occasional distributor marked frog also uses Carl.

    The bayonet you show with Karl Henkel name & distributor marked frog is quite scarce & should bring a small premium to collectors of these bayonets as well as collectors of dress bayonets in general.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Well said Billy.Would brown frog be for LS?
    Mine is black. Sorry old pic..
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    Eric
    [h=3]e plu·ri·bus u·num[/h]

  5. #4

    Default Re: Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Quote by Eric Zentner View Post
    Well said Billy.Would brown frog be for LS?
    Mine is black. Sorry old pic..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Eric
    What does LS stand for?

  6. #5

    Default Re: Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Quote by josephc View Post
    What does LS stand for?
    Luftschutz i would assume

  7. #6

    Default Re: Henkel Firemens Dress Bayonet - is it Carl or Karl

    Thanks Eric. I'm pretty sure brown frogs, even on fireman's bayonets, were for Luftwaffe personnel. Many fireman's bayonets are found with brown frogs, many more IMHO, that could be explained by vet or collector swaps. The popular theory is that those brown frog bayonets were used by Luftwaffe personnel manning airport fire units. No, I've got nothing period to back it up but it's plausible & no ones come up with a better idea that I'm aware of.

    With respect to service sidearms for Luftschutz personnel, I can't say. Although I know there was some overlapping in the duties of the Feuerwehr/Feuerloschpolizei & the Luftschutz, I'm unaware that Luftschutz personnel ever wore Feuerwehr bayonets. Is there any documentation of this?

  8. #7

    Default

    Hello all,

    I have a Luftschutz helmet with a stamp on the inside from this distributor. It is an m34 square dip civil type.

    William Kramer
    Us and them - and after all we’re only ordinary men. Me, and you - God only knows it’s not what we would choose to do. Forward he cried from the rear, and the front rank died, and the general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side.

    - US & THEM, THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON - PINK FLOYD

  9. #8

    Default

    You are lucky to find a marked blade and frog as many were not marked.

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