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Ist Bahnschutz

Article about: A lot of debate on the First Model Railway dagger. Tom Johnson's Book, Collecting the Edged Weapons of the Third Reich, Vol 1, Page 119, describes this as identical to the standard Army Offi

  1. #1
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    Default Ist Bahnschutz

    Not a Klaas but a No Maker marked blade, nice old black grip with age cracks - one could say a HEER officer dagger with a black grip ????

    Horst

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  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    I think it is a HEER officer dagger with a black grip,, my Red Cross was taken from a Luft. officer at the end of the war by my wifes uncle

  4. #3
    SS Ring Man
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    No it's water customs

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    Thanks for the input fellas - Although I dont think its water customs as they are covered in a blue leather i.e. grip and scabbard and have the distinctive customs eagle on the crossguard and respective customs leaves on the pommel, in addition to the variations on the scabbard.
    Horst

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    Horst is right about that , he has a water customs and many others

  7. #6
    djr
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    Horst
    I once thought that a black gripped Army was a 1st Rail. Having only seen and read once that this was the case. I now believe this type was only an Army variant. Klaas grips in black should be slightly longer than the standard Army grip by approx. 3/16". Others, I'm not so sure about differences, but I have seen several other makers with the black grip as well as unmarked daggers like yours. I also once thought that Klaas was the only maker of this type grip, but others used it as well? I wonder if they had a special reason for existing in this color, but believe they are Only Armys.

    The "myth" of them being 1st Rails was/is presented by dealers as they drive the prices up on a so-called, 1st Rail? My opinion anyway.....and will continue to be so until I see proof to the contrary..

    I have however seen a few black grips that had been altered from their original state by a chemical a/o heat treating process and made to be black. Seems everywhere we turn, repo artists are at work these days.

    Whatever one wants to call it, you have a very nice dagger.......that no doubt, considering the owner, is real........
    DJ

  8. #7
    SS Ring Man
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    I stand with hat in hand to say I was wrong it is a DR Dagger and not water coustum.Thanks Darrell

  9. #8

    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    I am inclined to agree with djr that these daggers are an army variant & that is enough reason for me to want one! The only question mark for me is I`m not sure where the hangers professed to be 1st railway come in to the equation.
    Any thoughts on that?

    The dealer price for them is IMO absurd & probably enough to ensure that I will never own one; however not long ago I did see one being offered for $700. By the time I responded to the dealers email it had not surprisingly gone. Someone had a very good day!

    Nice dagger!

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    I agree if your a dagger collector you need to have one in your collection and Yes, anyway you cut it Bahn or Black gripped HEER they do cost a little.

    If interested this dagger is now in the "For Sale" forum -

    Horst

  11. #10

    Default Re: Ist Bahnschutz

    Quote by Horst View Post
    one could say a HEER officer dagger with a black grip ????
    Problem is that you never can be really sure about these, some makers did indeed make both daggers...


    Greetz

    Nick VR

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