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Non Military German Side Arms

Article about: Hi All, I have started this thread with a view to fellow edged weapon collectors and me to facilitate the display and talk about German side arms of a non military type to include sporting a

  1. #1

    Default Non Military German Side Arms

    Hi All,

    I have started this thread with a view to fellow edged weapon collectors and me to facilitate the display and talk about German side arms of a non military type to include sporting and other civilian organisations. It is my hope that other Members will join in and show some of their weapons and associated accoutrements etc. Many of these weapons are as, if not more, attractive as their military counterparts and deserve to be shown in all their glory. I hope that you agree?? I have taken a look through the Forum but not noticed any other references to these items but if there is and if I am treading on toes, apologies!! I have no doubt that our Moderators will bring me into line if I have transgressed!!!

    In order to try and add a bit of interest and information, I have stripped the first item down into its constituent parts and assemblies in order to give any inexperienced fellow collectors a better idea of what comprises the components of this type of weapon.

    I hope that you find this thread both of interest and a source of information!!

    Hirschfanger or Hunting Dagger.

    This weapon is usually referred to as a Short Sword or Cutlass. These terms are often used to describe this particular category of side arm which almost always conforms to one of two basic patters. These patterns being either with or without a knuckle bow. Although a myriad of designs and etch patterns will be encountered all will usually fall into one of these two categories. Other commonalities include the weapon finish, usually gold or silver, grip composition which can range from horn to wood, ivory to plastic and, no doubt other commodities, grip insignia representative of either a generic type of organisation or of a specific organisation, area or club etc, and quillon assembly comprising a cross guard with stylised finial(s) and clam shell guards often bearing scenes relative to the organisation which the weapons represents.

    Blades on these particular weapons also fall into one of several styles. These styles of blade include short broad and unfullered blades which are ideal for etching, long narrow and unfullered and long fullered blades. Weapons in the latter category are often shortened hunting swords and are usually quite early examples. As is found with early pre TR Police side arms, a cut down blade usually has the fuller running right up to the tip of the blade.

    Scabbards are usually of brown or black leather and have two metal fitments these being the chape or drag which protects the lower end of the scabbard and the locket which forms the mouth of the scabbard and supports the suspension fitment, usuallt a frog stud. Scabbard fittings should conform in finish with the hilt.


    ITEM 01 Hirschfanger or Hunting Dagger.

    This particular weapon does not bear a manufacturer's name or logo but is of a high quality.

    HILT

    1. Grip. The grip is of natural horn with a smooth obverse and a fairly coarse reverse, no doubt to aid the grip.
    2. Grip insignia. Not a feature on this weapon.
    3. Knuckle bow. Not a feature on this weapon.
    4. Pommel. The pommel on this weapon is a plain cap shaped to accord with the shape of the upper grip. It has a hidden screw fitment designed to secure the hit to the blade tang.
    5. Quillon block. The block is heavily patterned ahd features a running stag as a central feature on the obverse and a standing duck or bird on the reverse.
    6. Quillon finials. The qillons appear to be in the form of hunting dog heads.
    7. Clam shell guard. The guard features an elaborate depiction of a kneeling hunter aiming a musket at his quarry.
    8. Serial numbers. Most metal parts stamped "1". No markings found on the scabbard.
    9. Hilt finish. Heavy nickel.

    BLADE

    1. Finish. Polished natural steel.
    2. Etch. Not a feature on this weapon.
    3. Style. The bade on this weapon is single fullered and is a cut down sword blade and therefore quite an early example.

    SCABBARD

    1. Body. Manufactured in black leather.
    2. Chape. Plain flat bottomed.
    3. Locket. Plain with a frog stud in the form of an oak branch.
    4. Scabbard finish. Heavy nickel.


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    Last edited by Larry C; 12-15-2014 at 05:13 AM.

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  3. #2

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    ITEM 01 Continued

    As a matter of both interest and reference, the following photographs detail the component parts of the weapon shown above.


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    1. Hilt cap with internal screw thread.

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    2. Horn grip.

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    3. Ditto showing orifice for the cap screw.

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    4. Quillon showing finials and central device.

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    5. Ditto showing central obverse device, a running stag.

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    6. Ditto showing central reverse device, a duck or bird.

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    7. Ditto.

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    8. Clam shell guard with hunter aiming a musket and wearing a powder flask over his shoulder.

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    9. Ditto.

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    10. Ditto.

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    11. Ditto showing underside with orofice for the blade and a construction number "1",

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    12. Quillon and clam shell guard as an assembly.

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    13. Blade tang showing screw thread and curvature required to accommodate the grip.

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    14. Blade showing the single fuller runing all the way to the blade tip and marking this as a cut down sword.

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    15. Scabbard.

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    16. Locket with frog stud.

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    17. Chape.
    Last edited by Michael Ryan; 12-01-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  4. #3

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    Thanks Harry!!! Cheers Michael R

  5. #4

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    ITEM 02 Hirschfanger or Hunting Dagger.

    This weapon bears the manufacturer's logo of Carl Eickhorn and is of a high quality. The Eickhorn squirrel surmounting the initials "CE" is as that illustrated below but without the vertical oval outline. It the alternative pattern to that detailed above in that it has a knuckle bow or guard as well as a clam shell guard.

    HILT

    1. Grip. The grip is of natural horn with a coarse finish and is relatively chunky by comparison with the previously listed weapon.
    2. Grip insignia. The insignia on the grip is a very common pattern in the form of three vertically mounted acorns.
    3. Knuckle bow. The bow is very plain but quite elegant with finials at both ends in the form of a hoof.
    4. Pommel. The pommel on this weapon is an oak leaf patterned cap with a top stud in the form of an acorn.
    5. Quillon block. The block is very plain but quite elegant.
    6. Quillon finials. The knuckle bow forms the quillon block and is complete with a single lower finial as described at "3" above.
    7. Clam shell guard. The guard features an elaborate depiction of a hunting retriever dog with a bird in its mouth.
    8. Serial numbers. None found.
    9. Hilt finish. Gided brass.

    BLADE

    1. Finish. Polished natural steel.
    2. Etch. very lightly etched with a variety of hunting scenes to include stags etc. Both sides of the blade bear the the patent pending inscription "Ges Geschutzt.
    3. Style. The bade on this weapon is of the broad flat pattern and without fullers.

    SCABBARD

    1. Body. Manufactured in black leather.
    2. Chape. Plain with banding and a domed base.
    3. Locket. Plain with a frog stud in the form of an acorn.
    4. Scabbard finish. Gilded brass.


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  6. #5

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    ITEM 03 Hirschfanger or Hunting Dagger.

    This particular weapon was manufacturered by the well known firm of E & F Horster of Solingen and is of a high quality with matching etching. The Trade Mark comprises a vertical sword standing on its point and running through the initials "HHS". The logo is encompassed by a vertical oval ribbon bearing the Firm's title.

    HILT

    1. Grip. The grip is of natural horn with a smooth obverse and a fairly coarse reverse, no doubt to aid the grip.
    2. Grip insignia. The insignia on the grip is a very common pattern in the form of three vertically mounted acorns.
    3. Knuckle bow. Not a feature on this weapon.
    4. Pommel. The pommel on this weapon is an oak leaf patterned cap with a top stud in the form of an acorn.
    5. Quillon block. The block is very plain but quite elegant.
    6. Quillon finials. The quillon block finials are in the form of animal hooves.
    7. Clam shell guard. The guard is of a form common to this type of weapon and comprises a fluted shell.
    8. Serial numbers. None found.
    9. Hilt finish. Gided brass.


    BLADE

    1. Finish. Plated steel.
    2. Etch. Very elegant and high quality featuring bore and stag hunting scenes.
    3. Style. The bade on this weapon of the short, broard pattern and without fullers.

    SCABBARD

    1. Body. Manufactured in black leather.
    2. Chape. Plain without banding and a domed base.
    3. Locket. Plain with a frog stud in the form of an acorn.
    4. Scabbard finish. Gilded brass.


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  7. #6

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    ITEM 04 Hirschfanger or Hunting Dagger.

    This particular weapon was manufacturered by the well known firm of Carl Eickhorn of Solingen and is of a high quality. The Trade Mark comprises a squirrel ensigning the initials "CE" encompassed by a vertical oval outline. I find this weapon a little confusing in that, unlike the other items in this thread which have either plain or etched blades bearing hunting related scenes and or inscriptions, the blade on this item bears, what I would describe as, military style etching comprising stands of arms and weapons etc. Whether this is a standard etch pattern or perhaps representative of another organisation, I do not know. One thought comes to mind, could it be from the Army Forestry Sevice??

    HILT

    1. Grip. The grip is of natural horn with a fairly coarse finish.
    2. Grip insignia. The insignia on the grip is a very common pattern in the form of three vertically mounted acorns.
    3. Knuckle bow. Not a feature on this weapon.
    4. Pommel. The pommel on this weapon is a fluted cap with a very small top stud shaped from the peening of the tang.
    5. Quillon block. The block is very plain but quite elegant.
    6. Quillon finials. The quillon block finials are in the form of animal hooves.
    7. Clam shell guard. The guard is of a form common to this type of weapon and comprises a fluted shell.
    8. Serial numbers. None found.
    9. Hilt finish. Gided brass.


    BLADE

    1. Finish. polished natural steel.
    2. Etch. Fairly light and including military style etching comprising stands of arms and weapons etc.
    3. Style. The bade on this weapon of the long, slim pattern and without fullers.

    SCABBARD

    1. Body. Manufactured in black leather.
    2. Chape. Plain without banding and a nippel base tip.
    3. Locket. Plain with an elongated frog stud.
    4. Scabbard finish. Gilded brass.


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  8. #7
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    Default

    Michael great stuff

  9. #8

    Default

    Captivating and Enamored. Great work Michael
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default

    Nice pieces - and very attractive.........!
    Regards,


    Steve.

  11. #10

    Default

    Hi, RH1941, Larry and Steve, Thank you all for your kind comments on this thread. It appears to be taking off so I will probably continue with some other non-military pieces from my collection to include DRK/Fire and Police etc. Please keep watching and passing comment especially constructive critisism as I am still eager to learn.

    With thanks, regards and very best wishes Michael

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