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WKC Police Bayonet

Article about: Hi. Is this the Preussian Police bayonet? Best regards Lars

  1. #1

    Default WKC Police Bayonet

    Hi.
    Is this the Preussian Police bayonet?
    Best regards
    LarsClick image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Larry C; 06-12-2016 at 01:30 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default

    Well, these are not the best pics but I am a little unsure about this one.

    To answer you question "is it Prussian?" No, it's Third Reich NAZI period in format.

    Many early NAZI police bayonets were cut down conversions of earlier Weimar bayonets and whilst they were never meant to be fitted to a rifle they retained the functioning slot and release catch. Later types were made without the slot and had only a visual representation of the catch which was the eagles eye. A picture of the end of the blade would show if this is "cut down" as the end of the fuller looks very different.

    The sunburst and letter K is typical of Prussian bayonets and therefore would be on an early converted type of Prussian origin but this should be on the lower scabbard fitting too.

    The police bayonets were marked with a "property stamp" on the crossguard and the throat of the scabbard which indicated which unit the bayonet belonged.

    The mark would typically be S for Schutzpolizei follwed by one or two letters for the town ie D for Dusseldorf or St for Stettin, sometimes (not always depending on the size of the town force) a roman numeral for the district eg II for 2nd Direction and finally an arabic numeral as a serial number of the individual bayonet. The marks on the crossguard and scabbard should naturally be the same.

    The marking SCHUPO 25 is something I have never seen (I don't say for certain it didn't occur) and given the above described format would make little sense but in any case should be I feel on both bayonet and scabbard.

    I am not an expert on these but I think this one raises questions that need to be answered before making a purchase of such an expensive piece (I take it that his one is for sale somewhere?). Better pics including the end of the blade are needed too.

    Here are pics of one I have to show what I mean about the markings and the blade fuller.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 06-11-2016 at 10:29 AM. Reason: typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  4. #3

    Default

    Hi Mark.
    Thank you so much for your help.
    I will post more pictures. Actually I had an old helmet which
    I traded for the bayonet. The helmet cost me 400$.
    Regards Lars

  5. #4

  6. #5

    Default

    By the way, what a beautiful police bayonet
    you got..

  7. #6

    Default

    Thanks for the extra pics Lars,

    The blade does appear to be the cut down style of the earlier version.

    However, I am still a little uneasy about this one.

    The eagle is rather wide and crude looking and does not look like aluminium usually seen as there are signs of verdigris which indicates the presence of copper. This in itself is not wrong as some private purchase bayonets had nickel alloy eagles (nickel alloy for such purposes contains copper) but I would expect greater definition.

    The oak leaf relief on the crossguard looks crude as well.

    Also, the grip plates look quite new and possible not even stag horn. Look at the pattern on the grips of my bayonet (albeit a different maker) and the picture below of another WKC. This is the pattern and colouration I would expect.

    I am still very unsure about the SCHUPO 25 marking too.

    As I say I am not an expert and there is a lot to know about these. Hopefully, another more expert member will read my concerns and contribute shortly.

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    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 06-11-2016 at 03:57 PM. Reason: typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  8. #7

    Default

    The "unit mark" does not conform to anything shown in "History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1908-1936" by Don Maus which is, I think, the standard reference on the subject.

    I would agree with Watchdog regarding his concerns about this marking. I won't comment on the bayonet itself - not my area of expertise.

  9. #8

    Default

    Thank you guys for your contribution
    I wait for more comments before returning this to seller.
    Perhaps it is a part bayo postwar....??
    Regards
    Lars

  10. #9

    Default

    The grip emblem is a sword emblem as can be seen when compared to the other examples posted. The crossguard marking is not conforming to typical unit marking of the time. As noted, the hilt feathering is poorly detailed as are the WKC maker marks.

    I believe this bayonet to be a modern item with reproduction blade & hilt. Some of these WKC fakes used to be seen on Ebay & the occasional dealers' sites but they are no longer as common. Some old fakes like this had a mixture of period & modern parts. Some used to have grey wooden grips, this one appears to have real staghorn but I believe the whole thing to be bad. I'd say get your money back ASAP.

  11. #10

    Default

    Modern made fraud. Return it.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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