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3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

Article about: Gents, remember to keep this thread on track - once things go downhill, they cannot be brought back up. Thank you.

  1. #21

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    For once, you and I agree! However, at the 70+ years past mark, finding Any surviving member of some families is nearly impossible in many cases. I would imagine that the government would be extremely reluctant to give a significant and heavily valuable object to an unrelated person or group. It would be akin to saying "Well, he was a Catholic, so since his total family is extinct, we'll give it to the Catholic Church". And, not to forget the fact that when valuables are involved, out come the greedy fringe all hoping to "put in a claim for the treasure" for themselves. This all involves endless court proceedings and rulings. And, unfortunately, there are limits to even museum acquisitions, so the problem is considerable. As for the law banning all sales of memorabilia, laws can, of course, be changed, amended or abolished outright by the people who made them. Perhaps there will come a day when enough time has passed and all of those personally involved are deceased so it may be possible To amend the laws? Who knows? It seems senseless to simply sit back and allow everything to be destroyed by the ravages of Time rather than get Some Good from an object from a terrible time.
    Having identified that many of these artifacts were once "Jewish" owned then IMO if a living heir cannot be established then these arifacts should go to the Jewish state of Israel...this would be the equitable and moral solution IMHO.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  2. #22

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Unfortunately, the Jewish State of Israel did not exist at the time of the acquisition of these heirlooms and many of the pieces have more Historical significance to the country of the families origin than Israel. Say, for example, the crown jewels of an Austrian Count's family or some such-should they be sent over seas to a foreign country-one that has no legal claim to them? It's a Hellishly complicated problem. One that has, apparently, involved 7 decades of debate and arguing in courts and continues to this very day.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  3. #23

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    I'm not going to get into a huff because you don't understand the concept of sarcasm...
    The Germans were obliged to pay reparations as dictated by the Potsdam Conference and had no say in the matter as a defeated nation...Due to the success of the Marshall-plan Germany was able to begin reparations, which also included forced labor and industrial machinery...
    East Germany didn't accept any responsibility to pay anything...
    West Germany took responsibility for the crimes of the regime and continues to make payments to the Sinti/Romani, and other persecuted groups...Sorry we got off topic.
    cheers, Glenn
    Last edited by bigmacglenn; 07-22-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Quote by bigmacglenn1966 View Post
    I'm not going to get into a huff because you don't understand the concept of sarcasm...
    The German were obliged to pay reparations as dictated by the Potsdam Conference...Due to the success of the Marshall-plan Germany was able to begin reparations, which also included forced labor and industrial machinery...
    East Germany didn't accept any responsibility to pay anything...
    West Germany took responsibility for the crimes of the regime and continues to make payments to the Sinti/Romani, and other persecuted groups...Sorry we got off topic.
    cheers, Glenn
    It's also worth remembering that prior to German re-unification, the building that houses all of these artefacts was in the Pankow district of Eastern Berlin, and was a goverment department of the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, part of the Communist Eastern Bloc, which helps explain the current situation regarding some of the items held therein, as nothing was done for years.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #25

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Actually German industry for the large part rejected responsibility and compensation for the use of slave labour and forced labour during WWII until the mid to late 1990's when it was forced into doing so by international pressure.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  6. #26

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    That is true, as are the Swiss Banks who have been sitting on Jewish money...
    cheers, Glenn
    Last edited by bigmacglenn; 07-22-2013 at 07:29 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    Haha!

    Spoken within a community of nerds who can spend hours discussing the various minute characteristics of hinges and catches, materials and finishing methods who know more about TR stitching techniques and uniform styles than the most qualified tailor on Saville Row, who know more about eagles John James Audubon and who spend hours making sure our particular area of nerdism is correct to the smallest detail.

    Hmm.........

    Well said. Goering was many things, but he was also for awhile an accomplished fighter pilot, and his role in the Nazi state and his misdeeds on a grand scale hardly count as "nerd" in my estimation.
    damit, basta.

  8. #28

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    I prefer the sillier side of this thread, the philosophical discussion will only lead to angst, disharmony and an eventual locking...

  9. #29
    ?

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    Ahhh!

    You've been round Ned's house on a Saturday night too then?
    Adrian, I thought he did that on Fridays.. Don't forget about the snazzy gas mask!

  10. #30

    Default Re: 3rd Reich Relics Still Held in Germany.

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Unfortunately, the Jewish State of Israel did not exist at the time of the acquisition of these heirlooms and many of the pieces have more Historical significance to the country of the families origin than Israel. Say, for example, the crown jewels of an Austrian Count's family or some such-should they be sent over seas to a foreign country-one that has no legal claim to them? It's a Hellishly complicated problem. One that has, apparently, involved 7 decades of debate and arguing in courts and continues to this very day.
    Most of these artifacts were taken from persons considered NOT to be or have any part in the country they lived in...the Germans' considered them sub-human Jews definitely not German at the time that is why they were excluded, dispossessed and later exterminated and their property looted/stolen or sold off in forced sales at fire-sale values.

    IMO the historical significance if any is entirely Jewish and the State of Israel (which was founded mainly by Holocaust survivors from Europe) are the natural heirs for any "unclaimed" Jewish Holocaust assets. IMHO it is not hellishly complicated but I understand why the current "owners" of looted Jewish property would want it to be.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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