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The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

Article about: John amery was executed in 1946 for his participation in the British freikorps

  1. #31
    ?

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Hi Chaps, just found this. This page contains MI5's Report on the British Free Corps (BFC) dated 27 March 1945.

    MI5 report on the BFC

    Regards
    Kevin

  2. #32
    ?

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Quote by CBH View Post
    Well maybe fighting to get out of Berlin .
    Okay here is the history of the BFK and theor attachment to SS Panzer Aufklarungs Abt 11 !!

    At the beginning of April 1945 10 men from the BFK were assigned to III SS Panzer Korps on the Oder Front , they were placed into the 3 Kompanie SS Panzer Aufklarungs Abt 11 as part of the Schweden Zug but by 14th April Felix Steiner the Korps Kommandeur withdrew them from the unit at the request of SS Sturmbannfuhrer Rudolf Saalbach , the British were transported west to Templin and then withdrew with other German forces to Schleswig-Holstein where they surrended to British forces !!

    SS Panzer Aufklarungs Abt 11 and the 3 Kompanie did fight in Berlin but no Britsih Waffen SS men were involved in the Battle they were long gone , it therefore follows that they were not involved in any of the Breakout attempts !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  3. #33

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Yes. title of thread is misleading, they never "fought". A few guys were recruited, mostly a "puff" propaganda coup by the Germans, and with the promise of clean clothes, good food, women... there's probably few among us who would have actually turned it down. But moreover, it was a way to possibly escape, or spy on the Jerries and report back to Englend? Possibly?

    As far as how many were actually ardent Nazis and actually really pledged allegiance to the Third Reich, that is debatable... There was maybe at least one among them who was really a turncoat. But, it was mostly a propaganda coup for the Germans, even though even Hitler wasn't really into the idea, and I think was the reason why they never fought. And the Germans weren't stupid enough to realize that these guys were all very possibly going to be double agents...

    Much ado about nothing really, except for a legend and some obviously very cool uniform patches ;-)

  4. #34

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    The Nazis managed to recruit a few dozen out of the hundreds of thousands of British POWs-almost everyone did, indeed, turn them down and to acknowledge otherwise is to defame them all.

  5. #35

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Point very well taken on the numbers, and I apologize if I said anything out of turn.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Quote by kilomikesierra1960 View Post
    the promise of clean clothes, good food, women... there's probably few among us who would have actually turned it down.
    Very speculative and not what the thread is about so any future posts about this comment will be deleted.

  7. #37

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Without stepping out of line, if I may be able to post one final comment on my own comment?

    the promise of clean clothes, good food, women...
    With all due respect, I don't think this part is speculative and I had at one time researched this topic extensively. And I apologized immediately for saying anything that might have "defamed" anyone, truly.

    Additionally from the MI5 report; "All these men received payment varying from 1000 Recihmarks a month for FREEMAN down to 400 Reichmarks."

    As far as what any of " us" would have done was in fact purely speculative. So I said something stupid, not the first time, probably not the last... ;-)

    I just cringe when this little known "facet of WWII history" gains a lot of traction, when you never hear anything about Oswald Mosley and the Blackshirt movement, and instead look in horror on (as was pointed out) a few dozen men, some outright traitors maybe, and some abused and maybe even delirious POW's some of who's hearts may have actually been in the right place, ie; do and say anything to eventually escape.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    My belief is that the best - non-sensational - book about the BFC is Adrian Wheal's Renegades: Hitler's Englishmen (Pimlico, 2002), which is based on primary sources, primarily those held at the UK National Archives in London and of various German archival sources.

    The story about a BFC soldier fighting in Berlin can be found in Ronald Seth's Jackals of the Reich: The Story of the British Free Korps ( (NEL, 1972), which describes a 'Sergeant Reginald Leslie Cornford' of the BFC knocking out a Soviet tank in Berlin (pp. 13-15). Ronald Seth was once a SOE operative, whose life story was itself quite extraordinary (see Robert Chartham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), however, I believe his BFC book is usually considered to be quite spiced up and unreliable.

    Incidentally, Eric Pleasants, author of Hitler's Bastard, mentioned in one of the posts above, was in Berlin in May 1945 with his German wife. However, by that point he had slipped out of his uniform and into civvies. He initially evaded capture and for some time was with a circus in the Soviet zone before they captured him. I notice that he also developed a healthy trade in 'Nazi memorabilia' to US serviceman - 'I sold Hitler's inkwell several times after that'! - faking and tall stories are nothing new! He finally returned from Siberia to the UK in the 1950s. An acquaintance of mine interviewed him in the 1990s and he was still physically impressive - during the 1930s he had been a strongman and boxer.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    Quote by kilomikesierra1960 View Post
    [...] you never hear anything about Oswald Mosley and the Blackshirt movement .
    There is a considerable literature about the British Union of Fascists (1932-1940), covering pretty much every aspect of its organisation, uniform, insignia, membership, activities etc.

    The BFC did include a number of former BUF members. However, much greater numbers served with the British armed forces, with a number being KIA. To just refer to one small example, the BUF branch for Northampton: there the District Leader was a former career solider who was on the reserve list and was called up in 1939. He fought in France in 1940 and was evacuated and later served in the Commandos; he was finally invalided out due to hearing loss. His Deputy served initially in the AA Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment and a number of the other young male activists also went into the army. One man who I had contact with as part of my research, served throughout the war and was in Germany after 1945 and later became a career soldier. All this serves to show that, as with so many other aspects of the history of the 1939-45 war, there are no uncomplicated answers, no black or white.

  10. #40
    CBH
    CBH is offline
    ?

    Default Re: The Brits Who Fought For Hitler

    SS Panzer Aufklarungs Abt 11 and the 3 Kompanie did fight in Berlin but no Britsih Waffen SS men were involved in the Battle they were long gone , it therefore follows that they were not involved in any of the Breakout attempts !![/QUOTE]

    Didn't mean it that way , sorry to offend . I meant fought to get to British or American lines , fought to get off the sinking ship as it were . I simply believed the books I've read about the subject , they proved to be false by the looks of it .

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