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Are current generations aware of what took place.

Article about: Gents, I've started this thread so as not to take over any of Carls excellent holocaust threads with a separate topic. I just want to make mention of my own personal experiences regarding wh

  1. #1

    Default Are current generations aware of what took place.

    Gents, I've started this thread so as not to take over any of Carls excellent holocaust threads with a separate topic. I just want to make mention of my own personal experiences regarding whether current Generations of Germans, or any nation for that matter, are aware of what took place in the 1930's and 1940's.

    As many of you know I was a tour guide for many years along the west coast of Australia and came into contact on a weekly basis with a great deal of overseas tourists. Many of these were Germans. The tours we ran lasted over an eight day period and inevitably at some stage or another the war would come up in conversation. I only ever experienced regret, sorrow, sadness, and a deep sense of shame from the German tourists I met. I never once, bear in mind I literally met thousands of German tourists, never once met any that denied the holocaust or were unable to understand why the allies had bombed german cities and towns. I very often found myself feeling a great deal of sympathy for my German crew as they all had genuine remorse - yet not one of them had even been born before the war ended. I never once met a German who wasn't well aware of what had taken place in the camps.

    Another observation was that I could count on one hand how many Japanese I met who had any knowledge at all on Japan's involvement during the Second World War and not ONE that felt any guilt. Again, I literally met thousands of Japanese tourists. I didn't blame them but I did blame their successive governments since the wars end as clearly there is little to no education about this period in their nations history. That is wrong in my opinion.

    Anyway, all of the above is just my personal experience, others may have had other experiences. Current generations cannot be blamed for the crimes of past generations but we all need to be aware and educated to try to prevent anything like this taking place again. For the sake of our children and all future generations, it's important we all know about these terrible times and events.

    Cheers,
    Dave.

  2. #2
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    Dave, I appreciate the consideration you gave before posting this thread - it does indeed require a separate place as to interject within the Konzentrationslagers threads would indeed be incorrect. Patently, I am replying to clearly state that this thread will be monitored very closely - it will also be moved to the correct forum. Regarding the attitudes of those concerned, I will simply add this well know quote:

    "Those who ignore the past are often doomed to repeat it."
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wypeya oki hi sni"

  3. #3

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    Sorry bout that Carl, I wasn't sure where to put this. I certainly hope it doesn't cause any problems as that was not my intention, we have some excellent German members here and I definitely do not want to cause any of them any discomfort. As mentioned in my opening post, the current generation has nothing to do with what happened in the past, it is simply up to all of us in all nations to remember it.

  4. #4
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    Because our mission in Iraq involved us closely working and providing protection for Japanese troops, we had a visit from the Japanese commander whilst training in Darwin.....he gave a brief to us, the first thing he said to us was that it was his first time in Darwin, he loved it very much, and he himself had great regret that his forebears had bombed the city, he then said sorry, he was not aware of the scale of the bombing....at the other end of the rank structure, we had occasion to be invited to the Japanese camp in Iraq, where they laid on a rather lavish display of traditional culture....we had many photos taken with the Japanese, and we got to play with Japanese swords......one japanese private handed me a sword, got down on his knees and exposed his neck, saying...you hold the sword as if your going to cut my head off and take a photo! We thanked him and politely said ummmm no
    The final story I have is of Aussie journalists coming to visit....on the convoy back to base, a photographer asked me, are the jap engineers building a bridge here? I said, no, he said "shame, be great to get a pic of Aussie diggers guarding the japs as THEY built a bridge!

  5. #5

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    ...I would ask if any of the "current generation" apart from a small minority are at all concerned or interested in any past wars or even current conflicts...I think not, and I would go further in that probably not that many of the second and third generations after WWII care one way or another.

    Even the present conflict in Afghanistan doesn't register unless one of "our" soldiers is killed but that is gone as soon as the TV or PC is switched off...and do they know why we are "there" or were "there" in the first place...I do...but I very much doubt many of the current generation(s) does or could give a monkey's, as they say.

    We are militaria collectors so the subject of war and conflicts interests us as it goes hand in hand with our hobby.

    The "war to end all wars" did not and never will because sometimes it is the only course of action, and whomever remembers past genocides or conflicts will never prevent future genocidal acts or wars... after-all WWII must have been fresh in the mind when the Korean war erupted?

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not prevent the US, Britain, France and the USSR from pressing ahead with their nuclear arsenals of immense destructive power...Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not prevent Kruschev and Kennedy from contemplating war during the 1962 the Cuban missile crisis where our possible total destruction was mutually assured.

    In fact one could make the argument that remembering the effects of war actually helps create the potential for future wars, for example, the British and French politicians of the interbellum were fully cognizant of the colossal loss of life and devastation of WWI and this IMO directly led to the appeasement policies that resulted in Hitler and the Nazis believing they could do as they wished in Europe, and look where that led the world.
    Last edited by StefanM; 10-17-2013 at 02:49 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  6. #6

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    Every discussion needs at least 2 parts. According to EU law I find this discussion is pointless as there can be only 1 part in this discussion. There are plenty of forums we can discuss over holocaust. I hope that in this forum all holocuast and KZ-lager posts are in special subforum and not in the Discussion forum. There is nothing to discuss.

  7. #7

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    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    Every discussion needs at least 2 parts. According to EU law I find this discussion is pointless as there can be only 1 part in this discussion. There are plenty of forums we can discuss over holocaust. I hope that in this forum all holocuast and KZ-lager posts are in special subforum and not in the Discussion forum. There is nothing to discuss.

    This thread is absolutely NOT a discussion about the Holocaust it is about the knowledge or not of this episode in history by today's generation in Germany, and elsewhere, based on the experience of the OP.

    If your post is implying that EU law prohibits discussion of the Holocaust then this is a false impression as there is no EU law that prohibits discussion of the Holocaust however in some EU countries Holocaust denial is against the law which is not the same thing at all. This forum also does not allow Holocaust deniers a platform for discussion, and rightly so.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  8. #8

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    Answer is very simple then - yes, Holocaust is the most important part in all EU schoolbooks (there are special chapters about Holocaust in schoolbooks and not so much about the WWII itself), there is a special Holocaust Day and mass media is talking about Holocaust almost every month. At least in Germany. So I do not belive there are people in Germany who have not heared about Holocaust. And as it is a criminal offence in Germany to say anything (I'm not talking about the denial of the Holocaust but even have a discussions about it when You do not 100% repeat the facts that You read from Your schoolbook) "wrong" about it. So no wonder anyone does not want to talk about it. Because if You still want to discuss it You will soon find that You are a "Holocaust denier" a "Neonazi" or just a wierdo. So there is no point to ask from a German what he thinks about the Holocaust or does he feels any gulit - the answer is always the same, just like from the schoolbook.

    Sandgoper lives in Australia and no wonder Germans do not discuss about such topics in a foreign country where they are having vacation. And no wonder they do not want to talk about bombing German cities by the allies also. I live in a small city what was brutally bombed by the Soviets in 1944 without the real reason because there were not much German troops here and Soviets bombed mostly civilian areas. So I pretty well understand their feelings in Germany. And if somebody I do not know personally from the Allies side asks me if it was not great what the Red Army did to my city, well, what I can answer. I will change the subject because no-one really wants to hear what I really think about it. Actually, for many people history is just black and white and they are even not interested in the story of the "nazi" side. History is just like an Hollywood movie - there is a good hero and some bad guys.

    I'm not a nazi, nor a Holocaust denier. I just still belive that there is such thing as a freedom of free speach and there are no topics in history we can not openly discuss. I'm sad I have to say it in 2013 but things are getting only worse here in EU. Maybe in USA You have much more freedom than we have left here.

  9. #9
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    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    There are plenty of forums we can discuss over holocaust. I hope that in this forum all holocaust and KZ-lager posts are in special subforum and not in the Discussion forum.
    Indeed there is, the forum is located under the title "Konzentrationslagers" and can be found within the After The Battle forum - it was created solely for addressing the history and events of the camp system and events related to it. This thread is not about the camps and therefore is not located within that specific forum - so any mention of the Holocaust is unrelated to the thread and is therefore not needed here.

    Please lets try and keep the thread on track gents, it has the potential to be quite interesting. Freedom to post opinions is fine, but we all need to remember the reason(s) behind the thread. Go off topic and it will be closed and / or deleted.
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wypeya oki hi sni"

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    Answer is very simple then - yes, Holocaust is the most important part in all EU schoolbooks (there are special chapters about Holocaust in schoolbooks and not so much about the WWII itself), there is a special Holocaust Day and mass media is talking about Holocaust almost every month. At least in Germany. So I do not belive there are people in Germany who have not heared about Holocaust. And as it is a criminal offence in Germany to say anything (I'm not talking about the denial of the Holocaust but even have a discussions about it when You do not 100% repeat the facts that You read from Your schoolbook) "wrong" about it. So no wonder anyone does not want to talk about it. Because if You still want to discuss it You will soon find that You are a "Holocaust denier" a "Neonazi" or just a wierdo. So there is no point to ask from a German what he thinks about the Holocaust or does he feels any gulit - the answer is always the same, just like from the schoolbook.

    Sandgoper lives in Australia and no wonder Germans do not discuss about such topics in a foreign country where they are having vacation. And no wonder they do not want to talk about bombing German cities by the allies also. I live in a small city what was brutally bombed by the Soviets in 1944 without the real reason because there were not much German troops here and Soviets bombed mostly civilian areas. So I pretty well understand their feelings in Germany. And if somebody I do not know personally from the Allies side asks me if it was not great what the Red Army did to my city, well, what I can answer. I will change the subject because no-one really wants to hear what I really think about it. Actually, for many people history is just black and white and they are even not interested in the story of the "nazi" side. History is just like an Hollywood movie - there is a good hero and some bad guys.

    I'm not a nazi, nor a Holocaust denier. I just still belive that there is such thing as a freedom of free speach and there are no topics in history we can not openly discuss. I'm sad I have to say it in 2013 but things are getting only worse here in EU. Maybe in USA You have much more freedom than we have left here.
    I live in Great Britain...which for the moment is still in the EU and bound by most EU legislation. We can certainly discuss almost anything as long as it does not incite racial hatred or hate crimes against any minority group.

    Auschwitz by the German film director Uwe Boll of 2010 includes some very revealing thoughts about the Holocaust and modern German youth and just how little they actually know about it judging by the included interview segments...which of course will have Boll's editorial spin but sobering nonetheless given what you have said.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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