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Defending One's Self

Article about: i'm happy that you understand me :P People that ask opinions of other members need to understand that, that isn't everything. They have to look by themselves for more information in the iner

  1. #31

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    Quote by Gary J View Post
    We all have questions concerning militaria ..
    Sometimes there are easy answers to be found, and sometimes fellow collectors are willing to help.

    Some details and information are buried deep in hidden archives, and take many years to track and trace ... But ! the upside of this, is the feeling when you uncover something close to your area of research that has been forgotten and laid dormant for years.

    I would suggest to anyone that this is the hidden side of collecting, ...

    You can't beat the feeling of uncovering something for yourself !

    Gary J.
    Here, here ... right on the money Gary.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    The majority of my collecting has to do with the 1911 pistol and it's accessories. It's just a tiny part of collecting world. My interest in these pistols goes back quite a number of years. I'm not an experth but I'm not a slouch either. It is phenomenal to see the lengths that con's will go to pass off a reproduction as origional. Some fakes are so good that you really have to take a good hard look at it to spot the inconsistencies. The items you all collect here and the knowledge behind it is awe inspiring.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    when and if you find the need to defend your self, as far as the opinion of other folks, you should at least aquire enough ammo (information ) to reasonably and rationaly express your opinion in defence of an item. keep in mind if some one has only seen one or two of Eichorns logo's as original. they might think the other 3 are fake. and give that opinion in the spirit of truth, but not knowing the whole truth. so you should consider opinions, but do research too. because we really have no idea of the real knowledge of the person giving the opinion, untill you can establish a track record of their being right. i have had items looked at and said they were bad, and then later said to be good. i have had opinions on maker marks that are just wrong. but do your home work. if you can prove it to your self, through all available information, and carefull attention to detail. it really matters not what some one else thinks. but be sure you are right by research, not just by what you think. and if you find the need to defend an opinion, just try to be as reasonable as possable, and give as much refference on the item as you can find. then it is up to the nay sayers to defend their opinion with justification for that opinion. because after all, we are all here to learn. i don't think even the most expert of us has seen it all. many know more about one or two areas rather than the whole world of ww2 german militaria. at least i dont. so be open to being wrong, lord know's i have been flocked lol.
    but once i saw reasonable proof of what flock crosses are, i cant argue it at all. i just accept it as fact carved in stone. and i could be wrong in that, but there is reasonable proof.
    but if you are only told "it's bad", and are not given satisfactory proof, and you have done your home work, then you should try to defend it, because there will always be oddball items, not believed by many, only due to lack of knowladge of them. then we all get to learn.
    i think the best people in the collector field share information for the good of us all. there are some fantastic information sites, like this, out there if we only look.
    and some things will never be believd by some, no matter how much refference you offer. so be ready for that too.
    sorry for being so long winded, but i have a passion for truth.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    My opinion on u is that you're putting the "experts" in a dark daylight. If u come to this forum with a question if something is real or it's fake, u will get an awnser. This awnser is often the OPINION of the "expert" it's up to YOU what u do with it.
    If u don't agree with the opinion from anonther person (that's very normal ) you can search for your own truth.
    I read this forum every day and everytime if some asks for an opinion they get is often with good arguments. With that ifo they can search for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

    The "experts" on this forum aren't God or Einstein but they can help u to look in the right direction.


  5. #35

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    you dont really think that all opinions given are expert opinions do you ?
    i'm not looking to put any one in a dark light, i'm looking to bring things into the light to be freely discussed. because opinions do vary. and proof is what counts , not personalities. so lets not make this personal. its only about dealing in facts as well as opinion.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    "Experts" are part of the problem as well as are the people that put these individuals on a pedestal and take everything they say as gospel. A perfect example of this is a very well known on line dealer in Germany who has a following that says "If it came from XXXXXX, then it must be good" - that is a flawed mentality and lends itself to further discourage individual research. That is not to say that he doesn't know quite a bit about what he sells, but even he does not know everything and is subject to making mistakes.

    In my opinion, there is no such thing as an expert, as that indicates that the person has seen it ALL and knows EVERYTHING. That is nonsense, and I shy away from any one who proclaims to be such. There are no experts, only well-read individuals who are highly knowledgeable in a particular area.
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]

  7. #37

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    Amen !!!

  8. #38

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    Indeed- nobody knows everything and this is hardly a hard science.

    I figure that it should be all about the facts, not the source. One's 'reputation' should never supercede the requirement of producing or at least being able (or having in the past) to produce facts to demonstrate what one says is indeed true; 'I've been collecting for xyz years' isn't sufficient- what if you've been operating under false assumptions or with bad information all that time? Plus if we focus on the information, no individual should feel the need to defend himself, or that he's being personally challenged.

    Here's a perfect example to illustrate that and also fits with the initial point of this thread:

    When I first started collecting Erkennungsmarken 10 years ago, I met a guy with a substantial SS disc collection, whom I thought was a knowledgeable source of information. I really mainly educate myself in things though so didn't go to him really beyond the first little bit. After 3 or 4 years, I'd amassed a substantial collection of discs of all kinds and had learned quite a lot about how to recognize real from fake, etc.. I reconnected with this fellow at this point and was horrified to realize that his now even larger collection was ALL FAKES. Not a single one was good, and they were all the same very common fake and immediately-recognizable. I actually had to get friends' advice on how to say something LOL - of course the inevitable response was one of indignation and disbelief that I'd even suggest that his pieces were fakes. He'd been collecting for 10 years (or whatever it was) and knew good from fake, etc., etc. I didn't push of course- I'd said my piece since it'd have hardly been a friendly thing to do not to at least tell him of the problem. But I was left wondering how many new collectors or friends this fellow had who might be getting bad information from him- unknowingly of course since he honestly believed his stuff was good. So that's an example of a possible 'expert' with, now, 20 years of experience (if he still collects)- but the experience is all bad. Now granted this is an extreme case, but it sure shows how people will stick to their beliefs even if proven wrong, and that bad information can come from 'experts' who don't or aren't able to offer proof of their claims...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #39

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    i'm sorry if u think it's meant personally.. If that's so u didn't get the message..
    What i want to say is that not everyone has to agree with the opinions of other people.. But what is said could help u... I didn't say that all the things said are opinions of the experts too, but there are some members that have an expertise in some subjects.... It's not smart to take everything that has been told for granted... i always search for more information than the opinions given on this forum...
    My appolog's andrew if u thought it was ment personally
    Sometimes it's hard to find words for something in a language that isn't ur own.


  10. #40

    Default Re: Defending One's Self

    No problem klokhoane,
    i can understand translation diffuculties. i have a hard enough time with my own language, trying to put my thoughts into text.
    bottom line its not about who say's what. it comes down to what we can prove, and reasonable speculate. and hopefullt share in a friendly way.
    collecting is not a pissing contest for most of us.

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