Hitlers "Commando Order"

[Thanatos]

Hi Gents
This is an interesting image.
It is one of the images in "The Wars Best Photographs" Odhams Press Limited and was published in 1945.
It was taken after the Dieppe raid and appears to be a group of RM Commando's disembarking from landing craft. Note the gentleman in the Coxswains station.
Booty maybe, The feldmutze I can understand but the combination of both Feldmutze and K98 has me thinking.

PICT0053.jpg

He's wearing what appears to be British uniform and 37 webbing but this could be easily covered by a large German Tunic. Did he forget to dump the headress and rifle in the confusion of departure from France. Could this image support Hitler's Commando Order which was issued on Oct. 18 1942 two months after the Dieppe raid ?
Has me wondering. Mmmmmmmmm
I hope you find it as interesting as I do.

All the best
Dave

[Scout]

Interesting pic - I thought the 'mütze' was a commando wrap/scarf at first.

[Thanatos]

Cheers Scout,
The thing that interests me is was the wearing of German uniform an acceptable practice on Commando incursions into France and other occupied countries as a deliberate act of deception. The actual '"Commando Order" makes no mention to uniform but as it is a capital war crime to wear your enemies uniform in combat it did not have to be mentioned as such.
Could cross dressing incidents in the act of "raiding" (If the case) have helped in Hitler's decision to execute all captured Commando's and special op's servicemen. It's an interesting image.
And then again it may just be war booty.
I would love to see his bottom half.

Cheers
Dave

[Scout]

I agree, might just be a souvenir.

Though both sides wore enemy uniforms on raids/missions of course.
One of the more well known incidents being that of Skorzenys men wreaking havoc (or trying to) behind enemy lines late in the War.
They didnt fare well - but then neither was it a picknick to be an Allied commando/OAS/OSS etc caught behind enemy lines (no matter the uniform BTW), as per the order to execute these immediately.

Cheers Scout,
The thing that interests me is was the wearing of German uniform an acceptable practice on Commando incursions into France and other occupied countries as a deliberate act of deception. The actual '"Commando Order" makes no mention to uniform but as it is a capital war crime to wear your enemies uniform in combat it did not have to be mentioned as such.
Could cross dressing incidents in the act of "raiding" (If the case) have helped in Hitler's decision to execute all captured Commando's and special op's servicemen. It's an interesting image.
And then again it may just be war booty.
I would love to see his bottom half.

Cheers
Dave

I dont think its THAT kind of relic forum!

[greimers]

My understanding is that the "Commando Order" resulted after German personnel had been found with hands bound and executed after consecutive raids; and that captured commandos had disclosed that they had been ordered to only take high value prisoners. Added to that, on small scale operations, rather than unit strength; the wearing of unit, rank, and other distinguishing insignia was forbidden, unfortunately in contravention of the Hague and Geneva Conventions.

[Thanatos]

Hi Scout,
Most likely booty but it's the combination of items that's a bit odd. The headress is explainable, so is the K98 but together they are an interesting combination I feel as if you were copping a flogging with the sea at your back would taking booty cross your mind. It wouldn't mine.
I guess that's what I am getting at the fact the Allies made such outcry with regards to Skorzeny's "American MP's" during the Ardennes battle when they were possibly engaging in the same activities earlier in the war.
Maybe British anyway, It makes sound tactical sense in Commando ops for sure.

Oppps That's a good exercise in rhetoric

Cheers mate
Dave

[greimers]

As they used to say to us - just don't get caught

[Jerry B]

Skorzeny called the "White Rabbit" as part of his defence who stated that in was also done by the British and it was his testimony that led to Skorzeny not being executed as far as I understand it.

F. F. E. Yeo-Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Thanatos]

Hi Greimers,
Did not the Germans capture documents from a Canadian Brig. at Dieppe with regards to the binding of POW's (that did not mention the execution of these men). Executions of German servicemen would have taken place for sure but the "order" gives little reference to tied up and executed as such. If this was the case you would think it would be much more specific in the wording of the order itself.
I think Hitler had simply had enough of the raids and looked for what ever reason he could find to implement such an order.


1. For a long time now our opponents have been employing in their conduct of the war, methods which contravene the International Convention of Geneva. The members of the so-called Commandos behave in a particularly brutal and underhand manner; and it has been established that those units recruit criminals not only from their own country but even former convicts set free in enemy territories. From captured orders it emerges that they are instructed not only to tie up prisoners, but also to kill out-of-hand unarmed captives who they think might prove an encumbrance to them, or hinder them in successfully carrying out their aims. Orders have indeed been found in which the killing of prisoners has positively been demanded of them.
2. In this connection it has already been notified in an Appendix to Army Orders of 7.10.1942. that in future, Germany will adopt the same methods against these Sabotage units of the British and their Allies; i.e. that, whenever they appear, they shall be ruthlessly destroyed by the German troops.
3. I order, therefore:— From now on all men operating against German troops in so-called Commando raids in Europe or in Africa, are to be annihilated to the last man. This is to be carried out whether they be soldiers in uniform, or saboteurs, with or without arms; and whether fighting or seeking to escape; and it is equally immaterial whether they come into action from Ships and Aircraft, or whether they land by parachute. Even if these individuals on discovery make obvious their intention of giving themselves up as prisoners, no pardon is on any account to be given. On this matter a report is to be made on each case to Headquarters for the information of Higher Command.
4. Should individual members of these Commandos, such as agents, saboteurs etc., fall into the hands of the Armed Forces through any means – as, for example, through the Police in one of the Occupied Territories – they are to be instantly handed over to the SDTo hold them in military custody – for example in P.O.W. Camps, etc., – even if only as a temporary measure, is strictly forbidden.
5. This order does not apply to the treatment of those enemy soldiers who are taken prisoner or give themselves up in open battle, in the course of normal operations, large scale attacks; or in major assault landings or airborne operations. Neither does it apply to those who fall into our hands after a sea fight, nor to those enemy soldiers who, after air battle, seek to save their lives by parachute.
6. I will hold all Commanders and Officers responsible under Military Law for any omission to carry out this order, whether by failure in their duty to instruct their units accordingly, or if they themselves act contrary to it.

He meant business, that's a fact.

[Thanatos]

Skorzeny called the "White Rabbit" as part of his defence who stated that in was also done by the British and it was his testimony that led to Skorzeny not being executed as far as I understand it.

F. F. E. Yeo-Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi Jerry,
Cheers for the link mate.
I think it makes perfect sense. Keeping the initiative at all times regardless of method. They were not playing marbles .
The thing about the image is that the gents pictured are not line infantry but elite combatants so souvenir hunting on a larger scale would not be high on their agenda you would think especially in such a large operation that is not going to plan as the Dieppe raid was.

Cheers Jerry
Dave