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Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

Article about: by drmessimer I have only two thoughts to add to this excellent thread. I think that the sale of any artifact on this Forum should be limited to genuine artifacts. If reproductions or fakes

  1. #11

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    A question begged to be asked....Where is the fine line not to cross, as what is considered spoils of war? Is this item a spoil of war? ...What does this word "spoil" in this context mean and how could it be related to military spoils. The word Spoil,,IMO and in this context,, means prize....any thoughts?
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  2. #12

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    I have no problem at all with a piece like this. It is a piece of history that should not be ignored because of our bad feelings towards it. It should be discussed and shown as a reminder of the happenings that it represents, no matter how evil they were. Men are forgetful creatures that need to be constantly warned of the evils they are capable of. I know some will disagree with me, and I understand why. I just feel that I have no honest right to be offended by such things since I was not alive back then to be offended.


  3. #13

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    An interesting subject to say the least to me a very disturbing item when I was in my early teens I stayed with my grandmother over one summer and while I was there she had started the Docuseries HOLOCAUST .
    She let me watch it with her it has always stayed with me and I can still picture some of the scenes vividly in my memory particularly the Jewish Star being worn in the concentration camps .
    This to me it is not something I would want in my collection I feel although physically a very light item to carry I feel there is a large weight that comes with owning such an object and I would not like to be the care taker of this particular piece of history.
    These need to be well conserved and lay in such a place were it is viewed by many and hopefully the meaning behind this small yellow piece of cloth will be understood by a few.

    Regards Mark k

  4. #14

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    This star was never adapted as the uniform concentration camps to my knowledge.Remember these were prisoners, so therefore they were asigned prisoner uniforms. Many camps didn't even use the star, including Auschwitz. The camps which did however use the star of david used hand made stars that looked nothing like the one in question. They had a very sloopy look, maybe to demoralize the prisoners. This im not sure of. Im jewish and collect this style of star.However this is were I personal draw my line, I'd never collect an authentic concentration camp star. That just my line, don't think it would be wrong to. IMHO you can't compare someone who collects holocaust artifacts to grave diggers either. The collection of a histrical object is quite different from the theft of the dead no matter what ora surrounds the object IMHO. I lost family during the holocaust so trust me I understand the taboo in the collection but I also had a jewish grandfather who fought for the US during wwii in europe and had parents in camps. He brought back a star just like the one in question. More than likely to show people that didn't believe concrete proof. This is the same reason i am a collector of this style of artifacts. That and it's history, my history. This all is IMHO, not to say one answer is right and one is wrong, it's very gray .

  5. #15

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    Basically, War is HELL!!! I am American first, but am comprised of nationalities such as English, German and Italian and my gf is Jewish. She doesn't condemn my collection, as it ranges from the Revolutionary War through WW2. I have had family fight on many sides of these conflicts and am a history buff. Many parties can point fingers at one another and continue the hate. Should I hate my Japanese roommate from college because my uncle was shot down and killed by them? Heck NO! There are many black eyes on all of our societies from past behavior. Learning from the past an not forgetting is the key for a brighter future. I personally think a lot of these stars are repro junk, but if I came across a legit one, I would buy and donate to a museum as my part in the preservation of history. As a community of collectors, we must not be branded TR nuthuggers. Sadly, there are collectors that love that ideology, but thankfully, I have not seen too much of it here!

  6. #16

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    Thank you for the clarification on the differances of the types of stars that were worn and the differances between them
    And I will add a little more I may have been mistaken as to which star I had seen so many years ago probably close to 35 now .It still does no change how I feel about these types of artifacts .
    I guess the point I am trying to make is this is the one item related to ww2 that I have the most regard for be it the star of david or the one shown in the classifieds yes they are different but they still represent the same thing to single out the Jewish Race from all others and it makes me very sad.

    With respect Mark K

  7. #17

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    Just can't understand why it would be considered ok to collect a ss collar tab of the killer of the jews yet wrong to collect the star of the mudered jew? Btw I collect both and am not trying to cause any fights or say any opinions are wrong!

  8. #18

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    It is a part of history, there is no point blocking it out and forgetting about it. In no means am i saying forget about the holocaust but things such as the printed star of David are pieces of military history which need to be collected and remembered for future generations. I have no problem with it being there. The sale of such items will be the topic of ethical battles for ever, so i think as a collecting community we just need to accept it.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    Good discussion Guys and many different and interesting points of view have been put forward.

    I guess there is no right or wrong answer, just that inner feeling within each and every one of us that tells us where to draw the line. To some the line is further on than for others.

    We all have our own standards, principles, ethics and morals and no-one else can tell us what they should be but I do like the discussion where we can express them and outline the reasons behind them.

    I don't actively seek KZ or Holocaust related items. Not because they don't hold any interest but trying to find the authentic piece amongst all the junk is what daunts me.
    If I can collect the decorations of the persecutors, I shouldn't shy away from collecting the artifacts of those who were persecuted, I can't ignore the fact it happened.
    If a collector is happy to own such pieces then I hope it is from an historical perspective and that person makes an effort to share their items with a wider audience, by taking them into schools, temporarily donating them to a local museum to make people aware of what went on.

    The only piece relating to the Holocaust I own is a letter sent from Auschwitz. It's posted in the Third Reich Paperwork forum. I will never make any money from it and nor will my family. I have left express instructions that this letter will go to a museum or other similar place where it will be recognised and used for education.

    The Holocaust is a period in our collective history that left us with reminders, whether they be physical scars or emotional ones or tangible evidence such as KZ uniforms, Stars of David, empty concrete roll call areas, rusty barbed wire or empty crematoria. We should not forget or put to one side this happened and if the collecting of evidence from this time will keep the memory of all those who died under the regime alive then I'm all for it and applaud anyone who fights to make us remember.

    As to whether items like this should be sold on the forum is again a personal choice. To some there is no harm, to others there is a feeling of discomfort.

    I don't personally belive we have the right to stop people selling these items or to stop people buying them. At least if they are sold here we can discuss the authenticity of them, take action to prevent the sale and stop anyone making money off a fake holocaust item which to me is worse than making money from a genuine artifact.
    Would we also not accept sponsors of the forum if they offer Holocaust items for sale on their sites?

    Now the subject has been broached perhaps the forum team can look at the points raised and decide whether or not we should allow such items to be sold. If such a decision is there to be made.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Holocaust Star offered for sale in the classified section

    It is simply personal choice, I choose not to have concentration camp related items because I don't want them in my home. I also don't want blood stained helmets etc.... But I don't judge anyone that does choose to have these things, they are just simply not for me because I'm not comfortable with them in my home. Everyone has their own personal limits when collecting and they, like all of us, are different.

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