Newbie-------yes another one :-)

[UnknownSoldier]

Hi Guys (and Girls? :-) ),

I suppose an introduction is in order, well here goes; my name is Tom, and I'm currently studying for my Master in "War, Media and Modernity" and am at the moment half way through my thesis "To what extent to which medals were used as tools of social and political propaganda in Nazi Germany and the USSR" it's a basic comparitive analitical work that covers both countries striking historical and cultural similarity's and both country's fascination with military and social awards. Now that I've sounded boring enough

When I'm not talking about, collecting or thinking about medals, uniforms and wars, I also like cars and rabbits.

I was sent over here by one of the members on another USSR based forum (RichieC). He said you guys could probably answer my many obscure and often seemingly pointless questions..... but I promise I always have a reason for asking them. ;-)

I am at the moment researching the re-tsarification of the Soviet army in around 1943 (just before Stalingrad apparently), this is to be chapter 3/4 in my thesis :-)

ATB,
Tom

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Tom, welcome to the forum!

I am sure you will get all the help you need here.

Cheers, Ade.

[RichieC]

He said you guys could probably answer my many obscure and often seemingly pointless questions..... but I promise I always have a reason for asking them. ;-)

Tom,

No question is pointless, and I'm sure that many of us have asked, and been asked, more obscure questions than some that you may think of...

In any case, ask away in the appropriate sections and I'm certain that any and all you may have will certainly be given consideration.

[UnknownSoldier]

Thanks guys :-)

Tom

[Dimas]

I'll try to explain a bit of "tsarification". This a problem that CZAR ( and in future tiran like Stalin) is genetically useful for soviet peoples. After the big problems in the 1941-42 year ( when the village peoples will not go to the war for the guy who close their religia and destroy the churches) The officers lose their names and ranks as officers- and got a familiar name as commander and as the rank f.e, instead of polkovnik(colonel)- commander of bataillon. The soviet union has a bit a strange philosophy- all peoples must be identical- no rich, no poor. No differences between soldiers and commanders- they are comerades. Due of that, the farmers don't want to go to the war without a god and priest. The Stalin call back all the priests and open the churches, some of the priests goes with soldiers to the war- to be an unoficially field priest ( stalin don't give the permission to make a religious army). The same was with officers. To distinguish them he give back in 1942 ranks, then shoulderstraps then the name officers, instead of commander. The names of the russians czarist commanders as Nahimov, Ushakov, Kutuzov, Hmelnitsky was given to the orders, to show the glory of Russian soldier. Also the guards regiments as a distinguished rank for regiments. The order of glory as the soldiers order ( the band is absolutely the same as in the St George's cross, but the cross was in four classes, the order of glory -3 classes) only in aviation junior lieutenants can be awarded with order of glory. So after Stalin has chaged a bit in his system- a lot of peoples start to fight for the Russia and not for the Soviet union.

[UnknownSoldier]

Thank-you, a most interesting piece with many salient points, which is what I'm making in my thesis, that everyone views Germany and Russia as totally seperate nations (which of course they are), however nobody looks at the many similarities. I also make the point that as you've said the new army, formed after the defeat of the Czar in around 1917, had no tradition, no history, whereas the German Army made much of it's relations to tradition and to historical battle honours. Which links, as you've pointed out to the re-tsarification of the Russian army in 1942/3, and the introduction of orders named after pre-communist leaders brought back much of the soldiers feelings of pride, place and tradition, in that as you said they were fighting for Mother Russia as opposed to the glory of the communist party.

I like the point you made about the 'Order of Slava' and it's usage of the tsarist ribbon, do you think their is any link or correlation to this same ribbon being used on the capture of Berlin medal??? And a similar ribbon being used on the miners medal???? Or is it just a case, like the Germans did of using the same colours repeatedly, as they fitted well (the nazi's, seem to have had a penchant for red, white and black: EK, VK, BO and the winter war medal).

Thanks again for the posting, it is very helpful :-)

ATB,
Tom

[Dimas]

To be correct USSR- the Russia as it was stated RSFSR- Russian Soviet Federation Socialistic Republic. The most differences just Germans have NSDAP, the Russia-RSDAP ( if translate to the german) in the first we'll see Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiten Partei, in the second, Russische Sozial Demokratishe Arbeiten Partei. First is NATIONAL, but the second is not.

The medal with similar ribbon is Victory over the Germany, but not a Berlin medal. The ribbon was used due of it's got a real honest battle honour in WW1.
Of cause the "Stars shower" ( as in russian language it mean firstly as meteoric shower- Zvezdopad, but in that case means from the name of Red Star order)
beginns in 43 year, and a lot of orders and medals lose their respect- being awarded later the long service soldiers, and a lot of medal's got a nickname-as the medal " Za boevye zaslugi" ( for battle merit ), got "Za boevye uslugi", which can be translated as medal for "For battle service" Usual medal for different staff service ( as usual they was females)

[Ben Evans]

Hi Tom and welcome to the forum, where in the UK are you?

[UnknownSoldier]

Canterbury way :-)

Thanks,
Tom

[Santi]

Welcome, Tom!
That tesis sounds very interesting!
Hope you like it here..
Cheers