Question about NS items for films/theater etc...

[Jo Rivett]

The 1941-made British anti Nazi film Pimpernel Smith... where all kinds of NS items are seen - daggers - uniforms - insignia - medals etc etc....

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The question is, the Nazi`s surely didn't lend or sell their opponents NS gear so that they could take the peas in anti Nazi films.... so where did all the NS gear come from that is seen in the film?
Were the "Allies" reproducing Nazi items before the end of the war?

[guns ltd]

good question????

[Wilhelm Saris]

In some ways yes. I must have somewhere a sort of cataloque where items are shown
that were used by (special) agents that were dropped in Europe. It included perfect army
and airforce uniforms and perfectly faked German steel-helmets. Occasionally German
uniforms were even reversible into civil. I remember also political uniforms for Norway were
included, but I have not seen stuff like SA or SS or so! I got this leaflet or whatever about
30 years ago and the English person who supplied me with it, stated he had information
that in England in the early thirties SS uniforms were manufactured. If the last is correct,
I do not know. I never was given the information!
When I come across the leaflet about the stuff used by agents, I will inform you. I remember
maps, compasses etc. But really do not ask me to have a quick look, as at this moment I have
no clue at all where it is stocked! Tried to locate it, but no result! What I did find out is that
I am missing more smaller boxes with material. It gives me the creeps!

This is largely the same answer as given at the HJ-forum (but at this forum I did edit tings)!

Maybe one of our English friends does know more about this and is able to shed some light!

[drmessimer]

Metallwarenfabrik: Most if not all the major movie studios have been producing all sorts of costumes for their productions since the 1920's. A visit to any of the wardrobe warehouses owned by the studios would truly make your mouth water until you get a really close look at the stuff. On the screen they can look flawless, but up close thare are anything but. For example, if you saw the 1964 movie Zulu with Michael Caine you you might have wondered where they got all those pith helmets. They were all made of fiberglass. My nephew rented one for Holloween several years ago--the complete uniform. It looked really good up close, but itdidn't look 100% real. Still, it was reasonably accurate and on the screen looked genuine. I suspect the same is true of the uniforms and equipment you saw in the movie Pimbernel Smith. Dwight

[BOB COLEMAN]

The armbands on the two black SS tunics are larger than the genuine article. The Hollywood movies of the era were famous for theirHeer tunics with gigantic breast eagles. I am sure some of the material was fairly faithfully copied. However, it seems that any thing with a swastika was larger than life in order to gain the attention of the viewer.

[Wagriff]

As Dwight said, Hollywood here in the States, has been making and is Still making virtually any awards,uniforms and insignias as needed. If one could get their hands on the items and take a close up look, they would immediately see that they are cleverly produced fakes. The Ritter's, for example, I've seen examples of solid plastic crosses with good chroming and black paint that look Fine-at a Distance. That such things Look good on stage or in films is simply a credit to the props departments involved.

[Nigel Lesgate]

Film studios and costume companies did their own interpretations and came as close as they thought necessary to be convincing nazi's. In a similar vein remember the allies made their copies too so that they could infiltrate the German held countries and cities and carry on espionage so, in essence, there were valid wartime fakes being created. I would hope their attention to detail would surpass what the film industry was concocting.

[DougB]

Wilhelm Saris the helmets were not perfect replicas, they were British made and had significant differences. I own one used by the Canadians for realistic pre-D-Day training excercises.

[Jo Rivett]

It included perfect army
and airforce uniforms and perfectly faked German steel-helmets. .... got this leaflet or whatever about
30 years ago and the English person who supplied me with it, stated he had information
that in England in the early thirties SS uniforms were manufactured. If the last is correct,
I do not know. I never was given the information!

Thanks Wim, yes they would have needed to be perfect copies if they were for use in Germany by spies.
I wont bother commenting about the realistic, or unrealistic, characteristics of insignia, daggers, uniforms and caps that are seen in a 1941 produced, black and white film. Although i do wear glasses now and can see very well, i would not be in a position to tell the difference from those images. If others believe they can, then i am sure they will have their reasons for it. Reassurance seems the most plausible one to me here.

At least there is definite proof that people in the UK were fabricating Nazi items before the end of the war - for whatever reason. Thats all this thread was about. Not about if the collector can tell the difference(s) - or indeed if there even were any. Many collectors cannot even tell the difference between items made in 1985 to those in 1945, so i see any further debate on this aspect, senseless.