What really happened in'Englandspiel'

[daniel1234]

Hello, I have just read a book on the whole event and wanted to know what is everyones take on Englandspiel?
Was it down to Dutch double agents such as the first ones to land in Holland?
The intelegence of Hermann giskes?
or could it be 'double double agents' in the S.O.E who despite being presented with many facts by Leo Marks still sent agents to Holland?
In my personal opinion i think its down to double double agents but i would like to hear opinions on the event.

[Woolgar]

I have never heard of this before

I thought it was going to be about football

Nick

[StuG III]

Englandspiel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom

[Woolgar]

One learns something new every day about WW2

Nick

[daniel1234]

Englandspiel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom

Tom its not in alot detail as to the various sides.
Did British intelligence send its own spies to their deaths? - Telegraph
heres a bit more however i would recomend watching the tv series secrets of the war where this was one of the eppisodes and of course reading a book.

[daniel1234]

Dead on Arrival the Secret War the exact eppisode thats on the yesterday channel over christmas
im sure it will be on there again.
Its on amazon if you wish to watch is for $2

[StuG III]

The actions of SOE certainly raises the question, doesn't it. Hard for these trained folk to have missed all the warnings sent to them out of Holland.
Interesting topic.

Tom

[Jerry B]

I read the book North pole calling by the German head of the Abwher? in Holland who was responsible for the deception and it was one of their greatest intelligence coup's during the war. It was a long time back so I can't remember the details of it, but I think they had broken the codes or passwords and the British did not realise that their agents had been compromised and they kept sending men and equipment straight to the Germans.

[big ned]

There was a lot of infighting in the SOE during the war that caused a great many agents to be captured and killed. Different sections refused to share information and there was much jealousy and bloody mindedness amongst senior officers of the Executive as well as a tendency to bury their heads in the sand when clues to what was happening were being dropped on a weekly basis.

One only has to look at the similar debacle that occured in 'F' section (France) under the command of Maurice Buckmaster to realise that the whole system was deeply flawed, although Buckmaster admitted this after the war and was often reduced to tears by his, and others failings, at the cost of many brave men and womens lives.

[daniel1234]

The actions of SOE certainly raises the question, doesn't it. Hard for these trained folk to have missed all the warnings sent to them out of Holland.
Interesting topic.

Tom

This is why i think its a double double agent, numerous times the 'secret password' was not done correctly to let everyone know everything was fine and the agent was not caught.
It was a policy to do it every single time you sent a message. Leo Marks also sent a message back pretending to be a German agent and got the response Heil Hitler as a reply.
When Leo presented it to the guy in charge of the operation ( cant remember his name) he said its all understood what you have found out and true infomation but told him never to give this infomation to anyone before sending out more Dutch agents.
Surely evidence that hes a double double agent.
A Report after the event recomended it was a double double agent, however all the files are still top secret about many of the top guys in S.O.E untill 2045?