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Super auction buy!!!

Article about: Nice finds!Id be glad to find a 43 dated para lid for a 100!! The maker is BMB:Briggs Motor Bodies in case youre wondering... Definitly dont strip it or anything, the paint job it has now i

  1. #1

    Default Super auction buy!!!

    I don't know if this the best place to put this thread so please move if neccessary.

    This is my first buy from a conventional old fashioned auction! I was looking around the auction room and whilst squeezing past somebody I accidentially kicked a bag which was under a table. On looking down I saw the unmistakable shape of a British para helmet. Having tried to hide my excitement I had a quick look at the helmet and asked if the bag and contents were in the auction. It was a late entry and had missed the catalogue and was listed seperately as 'Special forces backpack, bayonet, waterbottle, etc', it was also the penultimate lot in the sale. Due to work I left a commission bid for all I could afford. I had not looked at anything else in the bag other than the helmet, but saw the waterbottle and a shirt.
    Imagine my suprise when I found out I was the winning bidder for 5 less than my commission bid - I got the whole lot for 100!

    Having had a proper search I found the following:
    Para helmet
    No36M Mk1 grenade (dated 1940)
    British Leather holster (dated 1940)
    long sleeve shirt
    Bayonet (marked 'tgf' and 'F95 (crossed swords) 50' on the handle and 'CSZ' and ???37 on the scabbard)
    small pack dyed black
    water bottle (dated 1912)
    Puttees
    Camo stick
    Water purifying tablets from the 1960's

    I have some questions about the items if anybody can help:
    Any info on the helmet (I am aware that it has been repainted)
    What gun fits the holster? (and any other info)
    Is the shirt late/post war British?
    What is the bayonet for?
    What is the country of origin for the waterbottle

    Many thanks

  2. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Nice find at a good price.
    SteveR

  3. #3

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    The Airborne helmet has seen post war use for "P Company" Para training. Don't be tempted to strip it. Many many of these lids stayed in service into the early 1980's. Good item.

    The Wool Angola shirt is post war issue.

    Nice haul!

    Cheers, Ade.

  4. #4
    ?

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Like Ade says, "Nice Haul"

    The small pack looks like an 08 ptn side pack as opposed to a 37ptn one, there should be a WD "crows foot" stamp and date on it somewhere, (usually on the inside of the flap). Im tentatively saying 08ptn because from the angle that Im looking at, it looks like the shoulder strap is one width and the buckles are at the end of short extension straps as opposed to being on the sides of the pack.
    The Bergan rucksac looks like its 1944ptn version. Again, there should be a WD crowsfoot stamp and date on it somewhere, usually under the flap or on the back panel that lays against the body when carried.

    If Im right on both these counts then you have got a fantastic deal there mate, as both these items are rare and getting harder to find in good condition.

    The pistol holster looks like British 08/14 ptn leather equipment. If this is the case, (no pun intended), it was in use up to the mid/late 1940s with MP units and cavalry/RA units prior. The weapn would be a standard .38cal service revolver, (S&W or Webley)

    Hope this is of some help

    Regards etc

    Ian D

    AKA: Jimpy

    PS: Forgot to add that the short puttees were withdrawn from British Army service in about 1982/83 when the first Boots, Combat, Hi-Leg were issued
    Last edited by jimpy; 05-06-2011 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Addition

  5. #5

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Great back you got your hands in congrats

  6. #6

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    The bayonet is a Czech vz24.

    "tgf" indicates post WW2 manufacture. The scabbard is earlier, dating from 1937.

    The frog is also post war.

    Probably worth about 35.

    Overall you had a very nice result.

    Regards

    Richie

  7. #7

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Thanks for the info guys.

    Ade, I must admit that it did flit through my mind for a second about removing the top layer of paint having seen some of the examples on the forum, however, I wouldn't know where to start and wouldn't have the guts!! Besides I like to leave things as I find them as it all adds to the history of the piece. I think I'll add a net and scrim and place it on my mannequin.

    Jimpy, Unfortunately the rucksac isn't a 44ptn (I think given what was in there it was to much to wish that it was a 44ptn!!), I suspect that it dates from the early 1980's. The small pack doesn't have any visable stamps as it is dyed black, I believe that it has been dyed post war for civilian use unless you can tell me different (I know that armoured troops had black webbing and gaiters - did it extend to packs?). Thanks for the rest of the info.

    Richie, I managed to do a bit of internet research and thought that the bayonet might be Czech. You answered all of the other questions I had about it! Many thanks.


    I believe that the water bottle is German pre WW1 - does anybody have any more info?

    Cheers

  8. #8
    ?

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    I know it might sound stupid but i hope youve checked the mills bomb out, believe it or not there were and still are some soldiers who keep live ordnance, if im teaching you to suck eggs then ignore me , but it does happen, regards Dave

  9. #9

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Don't worry all checked and all deactivated! Although I did have a shock when I found it! As mentioned the auction did not list the lot very well. Within the bag along with all of the other stuff was a thick plastic bag which contained the camo stick and water purifying tablets, when I stuck my hand I felt the unmistakable shape of a grenade and took it out verrryyyy sloooowly!
    You've made a very good point Dave and whilst I do have knowledge of firearms and ordnance, when it comes to these items you must never be complacent no matter how much of an expert you think are! I think it's worthwhile mentioning this whenever other members show similar items.
    Cheers

  10. #10
    ?

    Default Re: Super auction buy!!!

    Quote by Grimebox View Post
    Thanks for the info guys
    Jimpy, Unfortunately the rucksac isn't a 44ptn (I think given what was in there it was to much to wish that it was a 44ptn!!), I suspect that it dates from the early 1980's. The small pack doesn't have any visable stamps as it is dyed black, I believe that it has been dyed post war for civilian use unless you can tell me different (I know that armoured troops had black webbing and gaiters - did it extend to packs?). Cheers

    Hi mate.

    1RTR traditionally blackened their W/E, (not sure if it extended to ALL W/E or just belt, anklets and basic pouches - it will need one of the members who is ex RTR to confirm or deny).
    Also, Royal Marines went through a stage where there's was blackened, (up to mid 1960's) and the light infantry traditionally wear blackened equipment.

    The bergan, if not 44ptn, then it is VERY similar. I therefore would suggest that it is an airborne issue one.
    The A-frame bergan was on general issue to airborne, special forces and RM troops, and anyone else who could get their hands on one by whatever means(!), before the, then, new issue bergan became available in the early 1980's. (The GS and SF bergan, (I've still got the GS bergan that I was issued with in 1982), used the same frame as the "Clansman" radio system that came into service in about 1980/81, succeeding the "larkspur" series.) A lot of airborne hung onto their A-frame bergans when possible, (a sergeant major in my TA infantry unit was still using his old issue one 10 years after leaving the parachute regiment!)

    Hope that this is of some help mate

    Regards etc

    Ian D

    AKA: Jimpy

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