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1 / FJ R. 1 Erkennungsmarke from Cassino

Article about: Hi all, I don't collect ID discs, I only have the ones that a friend gave me a long time ago,and amongst them (all found in the Anzio/Nettuno/Cassino area) there was this ID which belonged t

  1. #11

    Default Re: 1 / FJ R. 1 Erkennungsmarke from Cassino

    Strange one this, most but not all of the text looks like it would if an old corroded blank disc has been stamped, the surface oxidation around the text is missing, as it would be because the surface had been distorted by the stamping.
    I can't say for sure because i'm no expert metallurgist.
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

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  3. #12

    Default Re: 1 / FJ R. 1 Erkennungsmarke from Cassino

    Ah, okay, well if the shape is identical to others you have, maybe you should post those because as I wrote, it's an exceedingly atypical form and that's a problem- weird fakes appear in clusters, but real ones usually don't. And if there's not a coating, that means the next problem I saw is acutally there- and Paul has it too: the 'halo' around the letters is indicative of a disc with a patina present that was subsequently marked, knocking some of it off. That's a virtulaly fatal sign of a fake I'm afraid. Are there corresponding marks on the back as well?

    How old is very old? And are the only reasons you believe it's real because it wasn't sold to you and it was given years ago? Or is there something more? Because I'm afraid neither of those carries much weight in light of the obvious problems with it; I know personally that discs have been faked for at least 30 years- my Dad bought an SS disc in the early 80s that once I became knowledgeable about them I was able to recognize as bad. There's also no reason to believe fakes are only sold.

    I've heard too that fakes began appearing soon after the war to fill the demand from occupation troops- but it's rather strange to believe identity discs weren't among the first pieces to be faked, since there were large stocks of blanks around and it's so very easy! It's also not reasonable to suggest quality or accuracy is an issue- I'd bet the majority of buyers still don't know Fallschirmjäger discs were coded nor could check a number since even today the MOB code list still isn't widely-available. Fakers also tend to purposely tailor their 'products' to make them recognizable. It actually makes no sense to believe a faker would reproduce the Fallschirmjager code if nobody at the time would know it or recognize that if it wasn't that particular number, it'd be wrong.

    What I meant about iron-clad proof- something directly from the vet or whatever- is that's the only thing that would make it reasonable to believe something that is completely different than the known norm is real- just old and from a trustworthy source isn't sufficient. Anyone can be taken so the source may truly believe something is real but be himself fooled, and fakes have been around for a long time as we've established. This is the case with any historical object or piece of art- provenance is vital to proving authenticity if it's questionable.

    MOB isn't an acronym- it's as was stated previously, just the first three letters of MOBilisations-Nummer - mobilization number; it's just written as all capitals to distingush it from the actual word 'Mob'- although the Germans could well have written it 'Mob.' or 'Mob. Nr.' or something.

    The Trennschlitzen on the HG disc don't line up either? They appear to in the photo- but then I didn't say the HG one was 100% genuine either; and it's is pretty bent so that might be why the slits don't appear to you to line up. Regardless, it's not something that's virtually ever seen on a real disc, but isn't an uncommon feature of a fake.

    The definition of a fake, vs. a reproduction, is that a fake is purported to be real while a reproduction is not. It's just a matter of how something's presented, and if yours isn't a real FJR1 disc, it's by definition a fake. Technically, it's not a reproduction even if it weren't claimed to be real since the primary problem with it is that the marking is wrong LOL

    Ultimately items have to stand on their own merits and this one has several major problems and not one good feature. The text is 100% abnormal, the disc itself is abnormal, there are halos around the letters, and the font is a variant of common fonts used on fakes. Really just the text seems to bury this one and the rest just add more nails to the coffin as it were. You'd have to prove plain text Fallschirmjager discs did exist, and that this crude type of disc is real by producing a clearly authentic example of its type- neither of which is a simple matter. The halo and letter type are more circumstantial but together with the text and disc form are just added support.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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