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12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

Article about: My eye tells me this is fake, but I've not seen one of these before. What do you make of it? Thanks in advance.

  1. #1

    Default 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    My eye tells me this is fake, but I've not seen one of these before. What do you make of it? Thanks in advance.
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  3. #2

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Hi, you are correct, it will be a fake due to the designation used. A tag merely made out to a Division and not a sub unit thereof would not be correct.

    Cheers, Ade.

  4. #3

    Thumbs down Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Like Ade said, I love the runes on it though...


    Greetz

    Nick VR

  5. #4
    Jan
    Jan is online now
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    I was only looking at the differences in patina and...

  6. #5

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Hello,
    I agree with previous comments.
    That's a fake....
    As mentioned by Ade, Erkennungsmarken were issued at small unit level, as companies, Abteilungen, and sometimes soldiers were not issued a dogtag in their current field unit, keeping the dogtag from their training unit. There are also some mistakes on this dogtag....
    Thanks
    PREUSSENS GLORIA

    In Memoriam :
    Laurent Huart (1964-2008)

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Not so guys- one can indeed find discs marked to a Division. Here's one from my own collection (Kdo. Jnf. Div. 57) and another marked to the 20. Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (est.) with no sub-unit. I also have images of discs marked to SS-Pz. Gren. Div. 'Hohenstaufen', Frew. Legion Norwegen and SS-Freikorps Danmark that had with no sub-unit marking. The Waffen-SS was rather stranger with its Erkennungsmarken than were any of the other services.

    While I can't say I have any positive proof the disc in question is good or bad, it's not necessarily bad because of the fact that it's marked to a Division alone. What I find a little odd is the use of the Sigrunen on the front and the letter 'S' on the back- that I'm not familar with.
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  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    That's all not entirely correct- one can find discs marked to a Division, however those I've seen have specifically been the Division Kommando (attached). One other I used to own was marked to the Kommando of the 211. Infanterie-Division.
    The Kdo is a Divisional level unit of the Division itself so technically it is a sub unit,

    regards

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    I wouldn't consider it so, however I've adjusted my post to further illustrate why the statement isn't entirely accurate either way

  10. #9
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    I wouldn't consider it so, however I've adjusted my post to further illustrate why the statement isn't entirely accurate either way
    So what do you consider a Div Kdo to be ?

    Are the ones you have seen which just refer to a Divison good or fakes ?

    The legions and Freikorps are also a different entity to to the Divisons especially in their early days.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: 12 SS Panzer Div (real or fake)

    Well the Division Kommando is the Division, no? Nothing higher. Besides, the 'sub-unit' that I saw meant was Regiment, Abteilung, Bataillon, etc. I'm not picking at sematics here, but addressing what seems a significant misconception. The implication was that a disc marked 'Division' is not real, and I'm showing that it is. The other one I posted certainly appears real to me- I've collected and studied Erkennungsmarken for around 15 years now, and I see nothing at all that makes me think otherwise. And you're missing the point about the Legion and Freikorps- like Divisionen they're they're of the highest organizational state, thus analogous for the purposes of my suggestion that sub-units are the only ones that shoud appear on discs or that the lack of any is an indicator of a fake.

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