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4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

Article about: So in one unit, you could have: '934 Stammkompanie/ Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 7' '659 Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 216 ' 123 Jaeger-Reg. 456 etc, etc... And of course the million dollar questio

  1. #21

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    Sorry, I misread what Stacez wrote- so I confused things a bit there. Maybe this will make it clearer:

    This is a training unit, right? So recruits would come in, be trained for a period of time, and then sent out; if a Kompanie would normally have 225 men in it, simply divide this guy's roll number, 659, by 225 and you get a bit less than 3- so he'd have been in the 3rd 'class'. I'm just using 2 months as an example since we don't know exactly how long the training period was at that time, but if it were 2 months and they did begin training recruits right away, 4 months would have passed before the 3rd 'class' was inducted, and that'd put it right at the beginning of 1940.
    Ah, I get it now, thanks.

    I like how much you guys know about German unit formations. I am tempted to venture further into this area of collecting. Where are some good places to find Erkennungsmarke?

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Well it's one of the best ways to be able to recognize fakes and good discs- fakers rarely understand the formations, so make obvious mistakes. It's also pretty interesting in and of itself and it certainly makes the discs more interesting when you can flesh out the history. Dealers are not a good place generally- lots of fakes (because few dealers know enough to spot them, so sell them unknowingly), and prices that are usually extremely high; I used to use ebaY.de a lot since discs are still dug up by the thousands every year in Germany and there aren't many fakes (SS discs notwithstanding). Or other collectors- but then again you have to be wary since people can be unaware they have bad pieces; I once met a guy whose entire collection of 40 or so SS discs was fake. US ebaY is okay, but more fakes because everyone lists there- including those peddling crap. The rule of thumb should be always check here or someplace with knowledgeable people if you find one you think is interesting. Check the sticky thread I made for fake fonts- those represent a significant portion of the likely fakes you'll see- and if you find a match, you've got a fake. Otherwise post about it- we can quickly say yea or nay and you'll either get a good piece or save some money LOL
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #23

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Wow! Check out this wound badge document that I found for sale! My tag has still not arrived, but I really think I am going to buy this. Obviously it's later, but what are the chances?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    About a billion to one- for one from the same unit as the disc to come up is unbelievably lucky- I would suspect maybe they're related; like the relatives or someone who has a group is selling the pieces. Usually troops from Ersatz formations aren't in any position to be wounded so I would wonder if it was during a terror-bombing attack, or subsequent rescue operation or something- I'd think that would qualify as a combat-related wound and thus justify the Verwundetenabzeichen. Also being that he's ranked as a Gefreiter, he's not a trainee in the unit, so must have been staff at the time.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #25

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    About a billion to one- for one from the same unit as the disc to come up is unbelievably lucky- I would suspect maybe they're related; like the relatives or someone who has a group is selling the pieces. Usually troops from Ersatz formations aren't in any position to be wounded so I would wonder if it was during a terror-bombing attack, or subsequent rescue operation or something- I'd think that would qualify as a combat-related wound and thus justify the Verwundetenabzeichen. Also being that he's ranked as a Gefreiter, he's not a trainee in the unit, so must have been staff at the time.
    It's funny that the tag came from a U.S. vet's estate in North Carolina, but the document is for sale in Germany!

    I have purchased the document. Now I need a wound badge in black, which is the one common item I have never bought, for some reason.

  7. #26

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Matt wouldnt the Ersatz dog tag stay with him when he was transfered to a unit on front line? or would it be changed out? Or what?

  8. #27
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    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Ah, okay, I guess it's just an amazing coincidence; the ideas of why a man from an Ersatz-Bataillon might earn the Verwundetenabzeichen still seem plausible though.

    And yes Franz, it would- however an award document would list whatever unit someone was serving in, not what his Erkennungsmarke read; that's why I thought this particular document was unusual. Soldiers in training units don't have many chances to be wounded in combat- at least not in 1943. Were it 1945, then yes, many or even most Ersatz units eventually went to the front and fought, but since this one's dated 1943, it must have been something different and a terror-bombing raid is the only one that seems logical to me.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #28

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Seeing as how the document was given in Litzmannstadt, was the man wounded there? This is the Łódź Ghetto, so by terror-bombings, are you implying that he was likely injured by Polish partisans?

  10. #29

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Quote by ObKrieger View Post
    This is the Łódź Ghetto, so by terror-bombings, are you implying that he was likely injured by Polish partisans?
    I think he's referring to an Allied air raid, actually.

  11. #30
    ?

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Right- US and British bombing of cities; although you'd have to check to find out if Litzmannstadt was ever targeted and if so by whom. Being a regular Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon, it had nothing to do with the ghetto, although I suppose partisan activity could also be a cause of wounding in action, so that's another possibility.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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