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4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

Article about: So in one unit, you could have: '934 Stammkompanie/ Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 7' '659 Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 216 ' 123 Jaeger-Reg. 456 etc, etc... And of course the million dollar questio

  1. #1

    Default 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Hi guys,

    I am long overdue to have one of these in my collection. Can any of you tell me about this unit? Is this tag original? I'm afraid I don't know very much about these but I am ready to learn.

    Thanks,
    Mo
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  3. #2

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Hello mate,

    This disk comes from Das Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 216 (Infantry replacement Battalion 216)
    On 29.August 1939 situated in Minden and during the war it replaced various Infantry units.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Hello,

    Here you go for more details:
    Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 216 - Lexikon der Wehrmacht

  5. #4
    ?

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    It's probably real Mo- fakers don't usually bother with these simple Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon discs because they're not really worth a great deal; yours is one of the toughies to say for sure though because it's in such great shape LOL No wear, no age, no nothing to suggest it's over 70 years old. The text is fine, the font isn't a known fake one, and it has the good features of the blood group appearing not to come from the same stamp set as the unit text- a common faker mistake, and the roll number being on the line below the unit, not above- another common fake feature. I wouldn't be concerned about it.

    As the Lexikon text says, it was renamed Grenadier-Ersatz-Batailon in November of 1942, so your disc predates that. I don't know how many men would have made up a Kompanie as a training 'class'- Stacez, maybe you know?- but if we ever find out, we could estimate from the roll number when this soldier joined. The Lexikon also lists Infanterie-Regimenter 216 and 726, although since the latter was only created in May, 1941, I'd think the former a better bet for where this man was posted. Although, of course, necessity dominated and he could have gone to another unit altogether- or he could have been transferred, so there's no way to really know much beyond a likely first unit without further information.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #5

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Thank you for all of your help on this, guys! I just won this in auction for $25, and I don't know if that's a good price or not, but it's well worth it to me. I have never seen one in such good condition!

    Did a leather cord go through this? Does anyone have a complete set, so that I can figure out a good way to display it?

    Thanks,
    Mo

  7. #6

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Hello Mo,
    I like the fonts used on this one, if I found it for sale for $25. I would have bought it as well. Here are a couple that I have with, (I believe) original cord. I think that all were probably issued with a cord, but I am sure that if that failed, soldiers used whatever they had at their disposal. I have read that some tank crews were issued them with metal chains due to the conditions that they were exposed to in the tanks, fire mostly. I have a roll of unissued cord, not really that much left as I offered sections of it for free on another forum, but pm me and I will send you a section of it.
    Ralph.
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    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Yup, Ralph's right- those are original or at least period cords; twisted fibre as opposed to leather- I've never seen an original leather cord. Funny, I had the same idea orignally- that these would have hung on leather cords; I wonder why? I have a couple myself with repaired cords- one that has three different types of cord knotted together so indeed replacement wasn't uncommon. $25 is fine- it is a nice piece to be sure.

    The suggestion about chains is at least technically true- the Nirostahl type disc has larger holes for use on a chain, theoretically because tank and air crews could be subject to fire which would destroy a zinc or aluminum tag on a fibre cord. I've never actually seen a disc on a chain though, and Nirostahl discs didn't exclusively go to tank or air crews- I have several myself and none are from those branches; they're from regular infantry, etc. units. So I suspect it was more of an intent than a real widespread practice.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #8

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Thank you for your help guys. Yea, I don't know why I felt like a leather cord would go through this. I feel like maybe a German soldier's rope would break, so perhaps he would use a extra shoelace or something.

    So, 659 is his roll number? It ***** that Germans didn't have unique serial numbers that were stamped on their erkennungsmarke like American soldiers did.

    Ralph, I will pm you about that cord! Thanks man!

  10. #9

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    In a way Mo, they were unique.
    It gives the unit that they were assigned to and a personal number. I believe that even though they were transfered, they would retain their tag.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: 4. Inf. Ersatz Batt. Erkennungsmarke

    Correct Ralph; the replacement unit a soldier joined was usually a local one- a very old way of doing things- and it had a roll and that's where the number comes from; it is an equivalently unique way though since it's the number and the UNIT that identify a man- quite equivalent to the simple unique roll number US soldiers got. Ralph's Dad was the only '934 Stammkompanie/ Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 7' in the Wehrmacht- the same as US soldier 123456789. And a German soldier did usually keep the same Erkennungsmarke he was issued in training throughout his service time, regardless of what field unit he might be transferred to because that home replacement unit was still the one with the master roll that identified him. Certainly field units kept the vital information, so it was a bit redundant and I have wondered how complicated it might get if a man had to be identified only from his Erkennungsmarke- given that they'd either need a cross-referenced list (doubtful) or have someone pour over the unit roll to find the marking, or even send back to Germany for the information- not exactly the usually efficient German system that is joked about LOL
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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