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Back by popular request- more of my discs

Article about: I actually made that frame myself- it's just a bit of corner moulding wood from the local home renovation store, each piece's end cut at 45-degrees and then glued on to a 2.5 or 3mm thick pi

  1. #1
    ?

    Talking Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Here are a few more specimens from my collection. The one marked:

    5./ Inf. Ers. Bt. 203 642 is particularly interesting for me personally because this is the exact unit my Grandmother's cousin joined in 1942 I think it was, and even more amazingly his Stammrollennummer was only a few away from this one; so this disc was carried by a man who probably knew Walter. Sadly he was killed in action in 1944 at the age of 22, so I could never hope to have his own disc, but it's really quite nice to have one so close.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1 E Abt A R 6.JPG 
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Name:	1 JR 59.JPG 
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Name:	1 JR 77.JPG 
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Name:	2 NBL ERS ABT 2.JPG 
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Name:	4 (MG) J Ers Btl 414.JPG 
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ID:	99455  

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Name:	5 Jnf Ers Btl 203-3.JPG 
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Name:	Jnf Pz Jäg E Kp 253.JPG 
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ID:	99457  

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Name:	Stammkp Pz Gren Ers Btl 5.JPG 
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ID:	99459  

    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Matt,

    The last disc, the cord holes seem a bit large, do you know of others like this, is it common?

    Jock

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    They are and the material is different as well- it's the standard form Nirostahl (stainless steel) Erkennungsmarke, supposedly originally designed for air and tank crews who might be subject to catastrophic fire that would destroy a zinc or aluminum disc; the holes are large to accomodate a chain as a fibre cord would also be destroyed by fire and thus the disc could become separated from its wearer. The somewhat odd thing is that the blanks were apparently used by many different units- not just flying and Panzer ones- this one for example. In fact, I have several and only one is an FJ unit- the rest are regular Army.

    Late in the war there was another form of steel disc but it wasn't stainless steel, and it had the standard form- the same as the aluminum and zinc models; it came as a result of simple material economy.

    The Nirostahl discs are a bit of a problem in that because they're harder and don't age the same way as aluminum or zinc, they're harder to authenticate. In some cases, like the one I showed, it's easy, but other times not so much.

    Oh and there is a rare variant of the zinc disc that also had large holes, but there's no clear reason I know of just why. It might have been for a chain as is the case with the steel ones. IIRC, I've only seen them used by one SS unit.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  5. #4

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    They are and the material is different as well- it's the standard form Nirostahl (stainless steel) Erkennungsmarke, originally designed for air and tank crews who might be subject to catastrophic fire that would destroy a zinc or aluminum disc; the holes are large to accomodate a chain as a fibre cord would also be destroyed by fire and thus the disc could become separated from its wearer.

    Late in the war there was another form of steel disc but it wasn't stainless steel, and it had the standard form- the same as the aluminum and zinc models; it came as a result of simple material economy.

    The Nirostahl discs are a bit of a problem in that because they're harder and don't age the same way as aluminum or zinc, they're harder to authenticate. In some cases, like the one I showed, it's easy, but other times not so much.

    Oh and there is a rare variant of the zinc disc that also had large holes, but there's no clear reason I know of just why. It might have been for a chain as is the case with the steel ones. IIRC, I've only seen them used by one SS unit.
    Matt,

    Every day is a school day, I think I have passed a fair few of these up in my time as it just didn't look right?

    I will be more receptive in future!

    Thanks.

    Jock

  6. #5

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Bravo Matt, absolutely fascinating. Great family history, and impressive disc knowledge. As Jock said, every day is a school day, and you are the professor. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your brain power with us mere mortals.

    Take care,
    Jay

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Thanks guys- I'm glad my rambling is useful LOL

    I had another look at the images I have and it seems that the larger hole zinc discs weren't just used by one unit, but I find them only as SS units, so it would seem they are just a rare, but not super-rare, subtype. I can't say if they were just an SS trial design or if certain units specifically chose to use them, but it does seem that the Heer, etc. may not have participated- at least I've never seen evidence of it and thus if they did it was on an extremely limited basis.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Here are more:

    The MOB Nummer discs are Fallschirmjäger units, the one with its original Halsschnur is particularly nice- that one's 11./ Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Regiment. The pair of Panzer discs is neat because they're over 13000 apart in Stammrollennummer and only the way of marking 'Stammkompanie' changed just a little, from 'Stm kp' to the more usual 'Stammkp'. The Artillerie-Ersatz-Abteilung 61 disc is different because of the way 'Stamm' is marked- just 'Stm' with a line above the 'm' to indicate there's a multiple that's not marked- just like in mathmatics. This is a pretty uncommon, but definitely not false, marking. The JR48 disc is a rare one because it's from the Regimental command- the low number doesn't necessarily mean it belonged to one of the high-ranking officers though; there's an example of a Kompanie commander (a Hauptmann) getting the disc numbered '42' (presumably the list was alphabetical). The quarter disc is from one of the Feldherrnhalle units- IIRC the only army unit to wear a cuff-title; it's marking of 'Infanterie-Geschütz-Ersatz-Bataillon' is a bit confusing since no reference to such a unit is known, but the disc is definitely authentic- I know the guy who found it It's the only real Feldherrnhalle disc I've ever seen, thus even this damaged one is valuable. And the Kommando der Infanterie-Division 57 is cool becuase it's a Divisional command disc- again not necessarily belonging to one of the officers as surely there were hundreds of men in the 'unit' from runners to the General.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Stamm Kp Pz Ers Abt 5 Nr 13325.JPG 
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Name:	Stam Battr s Art Ers Abt 61.JPG 
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Name:	ST J R 48.JPG 
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Name:	Nachr Battr le Art E u A Abt (mot) 4.JPG 
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Name:	Kdo Jnf Div 57.JPG 
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Name:	Feldherrnhalle IGE Btl.JPG 
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Name:	6 G J Ers Rgt 136.JPG 
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    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #8

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Lots of very nice discs there Matt!
    Do you expose them in any way at home, or are the discs tucked away in boxes and such?
    Im moving to a new apartment soon and I look for suggestions how to have a small exhibition of erkennungsmarken at home.
    An all glass cupboard or maybe some frames for paintings.
    Any suggestions?

    Best regards
    Anders

  10. #9
    ?

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    I don't have them all displayed right now, but in the past I have put them up on a framed wooden display board using double-sided tape. They're light enough that a small piece does just fine and it's less obtrusive than little nails or hooks. I found an old picture of the setup...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Erkennungsmarkensammlung.JPG 
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ID:	99768  
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  11. #10

    Default Re: Back by popular request- more of my discs

    Thanks for the picture.
    I think maybe I could buy a nice oldfashion frame and mount the discs like your setup.
    Now all I need is a few more handfuls of discs, shouldnt be too difficult.

    Again, big thanks
    Anders

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