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Can anyone I.D. these?

Article about: Any Help with these would be greatly appreciated!

  1. #1
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    Default Can anyone I.D. these?

    Any Help with these would be greatly appreciated!
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    TN is Technische-Nothilfe

    LN could be Luftwaffen-Nachshub (maybe from the 17. Luftwaffen-Feld-Division?)
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Hello,
    Quote by Matt L View Post
    LN could be Luftwaffen-Nachshub (maybe from the 17. Luftwaffen-Feld-Division?)
    11./ L.N.17 = 11. (Kompanie)/ Luftnachrichten-(Regiment) 17 - 11th company/ 17th air signal regiment

    18 E.L.N. 17 = 18 Ersatz-(Kompanie) Luftnachrichten-(Regiment) 17 - 18th replacement company 17th air signal regiment

    Luftnachrichten-Regiment 17

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Did you read the text though Stacez? It specifically states that there were only ever two Kompanien: 1./ LNR 17 and 5./(Ers.) LNR 17- no others; and that "The planned formation of Stab, Stab I., Stab II, 2.-4., 6.-8./Ln.Rgt.17 never took place." So there never was a II./ LNR 17 or most definitely no 18./ ELNR 17. Plus it was created and disbanded in just over a year- before the war; that means no identitiy discs were ever issued if the idea that they were only given on mobilization into the field where there was the chance of combat is correct. That's why I discounted that one as a possibility.

    Unfortunately it's the one that makes the most sense, but the details argue against it fully. Little else fits. Neither is a usual type of abbreviation, and having an 18. Kompanie is virtually unheard of, especially for an Ersatz unit.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Matt L, of course I've read it and I was also confused. I used the same arguments as you did - the unit was disbanded before war, so no ID tags should have been issued.

    Having 18th replacement company in such regiments was nothing unusual. They had (Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment as well) entire Abteilung for training and replacement purposes in their structure.

    That's why I was thinking also about Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment 17.

    Quotation from Tessin:
    Luftgau-Nachrichten-Rgt.-17 * 1 . 7 . 1 9 3 8 , FStO W i e n , mobil mit I. (Betr.) und
    II. (FIugm.)Abt.; gibt 1 9 4 0 Stab I. Abt. und die Bau-Kp. 4, 5 und 21 an die Ln.Rgt. 10,
    11 und 14 ab; eine III. Abt. ist Ersatz-Abt. in Wien, dafür 1943 die III. in Kremsier
    und die IV. in Wien-Groß Enzersdorf als Ausb.Abt. für Ln.Helferinnen; 1940 erhält
    das Rgt. die 16. und 21. Kp. vom Luftgau-Nachr.Rgt. 8. Der 1941 aufgestellte Stab
    VI. Abt. wird im Winter 1941/42 II. Luftgau-Nachr.Rgt. Moskau; der Stab II. Abt. mit
    sieben Kp. tritt 2. 9 . 1 9 4 4 zum Ln.Rgt. 2 2 8 der 8. Jagd-Div., die 12. Kp. zu 227, die
    9. und 32. Kp. zu 238. Der Rgt.Stab, die neue I., die IV. und V. Abt. werden 1944 aufgelöst.
    Da auch die 6. (Ers.)Kp. in Wien-Mauer und die IIL/17 in Kremsier, sp. Pilsen
    dem Ln.Ausb.Rgt. 3 in Augsburg unterstellt werden, bleiben beim Luftgau nur die
    2., 3., 5. Kp.; in Taufkirchen an der Prattnach auch die 23. und 24., im Protektorat die
    33. Kp.
    G: (1939) 1 . 1 - 3 (Betr.), 4, 5 (Bau), IL 7 - 1 2 , 1 4 (Flugm.)Kp.
    U: Luftgau XVII
    To sum up.
    In that case, the used abbreviation L.N. is normal for Luftnachrichten-Regiment but as we are aware there is plenty of exceptions in decoding ID tags.
    Addidtionally, in favour of Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment 17 is the history of Luftnachrichten-Regiment 17...

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    "Of course"? How is it of course when you didn't elaborate or explain why you still thought something might work when it doesn't seem to make sense? Especially if you agree LOL You didn't mention any qualifications so we might realize you even noticed the issues. And obviously I, who has read a good deal about units and their structures, wasn't aware there could be an 18. Ersatz Kompanie suggests it's not at all common knowledge LOL Explaining such things that appear to be contrary to the norm are very useful teaching situations to take advantage of

    So yes Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment 17 does seem to fit- it had both a II. and a III. Bataillon that means the subunits on the discs fit too- excellent And just which types of units might have so many Kompanien? Obviously a Luftgau level Regiment, but is it only those so high or are there others? Fakers sometimes show their hands by putting in quite incorrectly large Kompanie numbers, so it's very useful to know what types could have large numbers...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    And obviously I, who has read a good deal about units and their structures, wasn't aware there could be an 18. Ersatz Kompanie suggests it's not at all common knowledge LOL Explaining such things that appear to be contrary to the norm are very useful teaching situations to take advantage of
    What is contrary here?! Maybe it's not common knowledge for you or you has read some poor stuff concerning units and structures. For me the structure of such regiments it's obvious and well known from the very beginning of my ID tags hobby. Try to get know more basics before you again suggest i.e. Luftwaffen-Nachshub in such case. LOL

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    So yes Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment 17 does seem to fit- it had both a II. and a III. Bataillon that means the subunits on the discs fit too- excellent And just which types of units might have so many Kompanien? Obviously a Luftgau level Regiment, but is it only those so high or are there others? Fakers sometimes show their hands by putting in quite incorrectly large Kompanie numbers, so it's very useful to know what types could have large numbers...
    Both Luftnachrichten-Regiment and Luftgau-Nachrichten-Regiment had large companies numbers due to their structures. It was norm not contrary.
    Last edited by Stacez; 03-14-2012 at 07:21 AM.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Quote by Stacez View Post
    What is contrary here?! Maybe it's not common knowledge for you or you has read some poor stuff concerning units and structures. For me the structure of such regiments it's obvious and well known from the very beginning of my ID tags hobby. Try to get know more basics before you again suggest i.e. Luftwaffen-Nachshub in such case. LOL
    Never mind there's obviously no point in going on about it. Myself, I'm usually pleased to recognize something obscure that others don't seem to know because it means I can enlighten- it's an opportunity to share knowledge so others can benefit from it too. I certainly don't see it as a chore or annoying to have to explain deductions or ideas. And I definitely don't belittle anyone who doesn't know what I do.
    Last edited by Matt L; 03-14-2012 at 07:26 PM.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    Wow, thanks for the reply. Kinda scared to list any others There may be some gunfire. LOL

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Can anyone I.D. these?

    LOL Nah- friendly disagreements are one thing, and luckily are uncommon, but it'd never be allowed to get worse
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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