Classified section Warrant disc - IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED

[Danmark]

Apologies all - what I saw as a "hole" at the hook of the '6' IS present on the first photo, just filled in with "patina"
This goes more than just a cleanup - it has irrevocably altered the appearance forever!

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi William, have you bought this?

Cheers, Ade.

[all1knew]

Hi William, have you bought this?

Cheers, Ade.

Adrian,

I have not. I believe it deserved immediate attention as the original sales thread failed to mention anything about the cleaning of the badge. It is my opinion that this is just as bad as trying to pass off a reproduction as an original to our community here. Just my opinion, but I did want to expose the seller for this.

William Kramer

[Wagriff]

I agree with Steve-it is, indeed, the same identical badge. A crying shame that the seller chose to so harshly clean it, but it is Still an original and very scarce disk and as such, I could be persuaded to accept it without too much effort-not,however, at the extremely elevated asking price, though. It Will eventually re-tone down abit in time.

[Matt L]

Thanks William (K)- I can't say I agree that simply not mentioning something's been cleaned is as bad as trying to sell a fake, but it would be better were it noted in the listing so there's at least 'full disclosure'. Really only if he's stating that the current finish is original and thus is trying to pass off a cleaned piece as just being remarkably well-preserved, is he doing anything dodgy.

If it were a case of failing to note a significant, invisible repair or replacement of a part, for example- those would be very bad things to fail to disclose and tantamount to selling a fake. Luckily, given it's a general rule that patina is important to the value of any historical object, not just militaria, and that removing it can significantly reduce that value. From the pitting and bits of remaining patina in low and protected spots, it's at least fairly obvious this disc was cleaned so nobody's going to think it in its as-found state to be sure

You know you can post comments in sale listings, yes? If you see something odd or missing, you can always mention it, politely, right there. For this one you could simply ask if the disc has been cleaned or note that it appears so- the seller should reply that indeed it has and the matter's sorted. Of course you should never assume someone's doing something dodgy and accuse them of anything- but reasonable questions or observations are perfectly alright.

[all1knew]

You know you can post comments in sale listings, yes? If you see something odd or missing, you can always mention it, politely, right there. For this one you could simply ask if the disc has been cleaned or note that it appears so- the seller should reply that indeed it has and the matter's sorted. Of course you should never assume someone's doing something dodgy and accuse them of anything- but reasonable questions or observations are perfectly alright.

A very rare original German Gestapo/Secret Police Warrant disc ( kriminalpolizei) - Militaria Collectibles buy - sell at War Relics

In the above original sales ad, prior to starting this thread I mentioned in the comments section that this had been cleaned. The seller started with the original photos and then edited the sales ad with the newer photos of an obviously cleaned disc. Now, I guess this isn't along the exact same lines of a bait and switch but it isn't a bit shady in your eyes he failed to mention this tidbit of information?

While my post-count may not lead one to believe I spent a lot of time on these forums I've been around. With that being said I did notice the obvious cleaning of the disc, but what about some other "newer" collectors that inhabit this forum? Surely there are some less-experienced individuals here that may not have known the obvious and put trust in the items that are on this forum are authentic and that reproductions in the classified section would be weeded out by more knowledgeable collectors and forum staff.

The seller may ask whatever price he wants for the disc, but I would feel truly sorry for the inexperienced collector that purchased this disc as an investment piece only to learn that it had been cleaned and it wasn't disclosed in the purchase thread. The logic that it doesn't have to be directly posted in the description is absolutely a flaw in the rules of the classified section in my opinion. A seller would not have to disclose a repair to the badge, or re-attaching a swastika to a piece as it only altered the original state but the badge "looks" correct?

These forums are designed to protect individuals from "questionable" business ethics like this - knowledge is power. As a community we must expose acts such as these and put our foot down that this behavior will not be tolerated. I would urge forum staff to enforce regulation and enforce rules in which sellers within the classifieds section must disclose any post-war tampering of legit items, i.e. cleaning an item or repair to an item. This would be oiling a liner in a helmet, polishing a dagger blade, re-soldering reverse hardware on a badge, or using a harsh chemical on a Warrant Disc to clean it. This isn't Renaissance wax or some Vaseline here....

I moderate the forum.axishistory.com/ militaria collecting subsection and personally oversee all items that are posted in the "for sale" section. It is my responsibility to ensure nobody is taken advantage of. If this forum needs a moderator in the classifieds section I would be happy to help out.

William Kramer

[Matt L]

No, it's not obviously shady and I wouldn't assume any negative intent from someone posting new, updated photos; it's actually quite reasonable to post new photos if something's chaned, yes? He cleaned the badge thus leaving the old photos up would have been wrong and misleading- that would have been very shady. In this case sure, we all think this is quite a negative 'new' but that hardly demonstrates the seller is being anything other than foolish. And if you'd already mentioned the cleaning publicly in the listing, the issue was dealt with- it was out in the open and there for all to see, so I'm really not sure what this is all about. Suggesting he's behaving 'questionably' is not very fair unless you have some inside information about this particular seller that we don't.

If you do know something about the seller we don't, send me a PM with the details- this all should have been done by PM, it's not really a public debate subject. I'll bring it to the admins regardless and we'll take it from here.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Any changes to an item should always be disclosed in an items sales description.

Cheers, Ade.