Could my Grandpa have worn this style of EKM ?

[Bernhard]

My fellow collectors ,

For some time now I am researching my grandfathers service in Heer and Kriegsmarine.
I would like to share with you a very lucky find that I have made on austrian ebay not too long ago.

As you can see my Opa started his service in WWII as a member of the 1.Kompanie Panzerjägerabt.45
After returning from the french campaign he spent 6 weeks in garrison with the 2.Kompanie of the Panzerjäger
Ersatz-Abteilung 17 which was the reserve unit of the Abt.45.

So could this mean that the Erkennungsmarke that my grandfather had been issued would have been that of the Ersatz - Abteilung 17 ?

Here is a scan of my grandfather´s Wehrpass and the ID disc that i got from eBay.

Regards

Bernhard

[Paul D]

It's probable that his EK was for his first unit 1.Kompanie Panzerjägerabt.45 not the Ersatz Abt !!

cheers

Paul

[talltom]

if he was also in the kreigsmarine then he would have had a different style of ekm...........

[Matt L]

Hi Bernhard,

Indeed, your Opa would wear a disc from the very first unit he entered, and would have kept that same one regardless of what units he spent time with later on- although Tom could be right that if he transferred to the Kriegsmarine, he could have been reissued with one of their discs. Since his first Wehrmacht unit was 1./ Pz. Abw. Abt. 45 (it would be Panzer-Abwehr, not Panzerjäger as the latter was a term only introduced in March of 1940), then that's the disc he would have. Clearly the entry in the book there was made after the term change. If it still exists, you can get his service record from the Deutsche Dienststelle and that may have the Erkennungsmarke listing.

[Bernhard]

I would like to thank you all for taking the time and share your thoughts.
Never thought about the Deutsche Dienststelle before , but will try.

Best regards

Bernhard

[Matt L]

Hopefully they'll have something- my Dad got his Uncle's service record from them as well as that of my Oma's cousin.

You can also tell your Opa's disc would have been marked '1./ Pz. Abw. Abt. 45' because the Wehrpaß entry lists his Stammrollennummer as just 149- meaning he was one of the original members of the unit (a Kompanie had more than 150 men).

The disc you have is actually quite nice- it's an uncommon Nirostahl form, was issued because it has the blood group letter on it, and its markings are interesting in that it may have been that the unit information was pre-marked '/ Kp. Pz. jäg. Ers. Abt. 45' and then they were distributed to the individual Kompanien, or from a central supply each man's Kompanie was added before the slash- it's not normal practice to put the slash before the 'Kp.' if one is marking 'Stkp.' all at one time- technically that should go before the slash. That suggests to me it might have been pre-marked, and a number or 'St' was added later.

It's also interesting to note the lower-case 'j' in 'jäg'- clearly the unit had capital letters in their stamp set, but must either have been missing the 'J' or someone was just making so many, he made a mistake; that also fits with the whole Abteilung's discs being pre-marked rather than each Kompanie doing their own. The full-text stamp 'Blutgruppe' is nice too and uncommon. So overall, you have a beauty there

You can tell too it's from much later than the time your Opa was there- he's listed as having been entered on the roll as number '29' in the 2. Kompanie and that was in August of 1940- it'd take quite a while to induct and train over 5500 men if in mid-1940 there were only a few dozen.

[Bernhard]

Hi Matt ,

I have to say that I am very impressed by the depth of your knowledge and your kindness to share it with me ( us all ) !
EKM are complete new field for me as I am a helmet guy in the first grade but it is very interresting to learn about them.
Very smart CSI-like asessment Matt - Thanks again !!!!

Regards

Bernhard

[Matt L]

Sure thing Bernhard- I'm always happy to help

[Bernhard]

My fellow collectors ,

Being well worth the wait I received a letter of the Deutsche Dienststelle solving the question about the
Erkennungsmarke of my Granddad.
A very interresting fact is that there are no records of my Opa´s service with the Kriegsmarine including
an onboard command on VP 901.
Here for your information the scans of the letter I received.
Thanks again to everyone participating in this thread.

Regards

Bernhard

[Matt L]

Very interesting Bernhardt- thanks for sharing this. So your Opa did begin in Pz. Abw. Ers. Abt. 17 afterall- I guess for some reason that simply wasn't noted in the Wehrpaß; perhaps it was normal practice to place 'new' men on the roll, and issue Erkennungsmarken from there rather than the actual unit- he obviously didn't spend any time at all there since on the exact same day he's listed as being a member of the field unit. Since he was already a trained Artillerist, I suppose that makes sense.

It is a real shame that no records after mid-1940 could be found- so much was lost during the war or is just sitting neglected in US, Russian, etc. archives somewhere. The same was the case with my Father's Uncle- only a fragment of his service record was available and what was known told us nearly nothing. At least in your case you can look at the history of the 45. Infanterie-Division for its action in 1940 to get an idea of where your Opa was then.

What is surprising is that there are no further entries in his Wehrpaß- do you know when he served in the Kriegsmarine? Might it have been in June of 1940 and thus maybe he was issued a new Wehrpaß since he switched services or something like that?

If you want an Erkennungsmarke that'd be more like his, you have to keep an eye out for one marked Panzer-Abwehr-Ersatz-Abteilung 17; the one you have is the right unit, just its later name.

And I love the quote from the letter home- '...named after "him"...' LOL Awesome