Do these 2 GESTAPO disks look authentic?

[hassiman]

Offered by a known auction house in Gernmany. What do you think?

[Scout]

Im no expert, but I know that there are many fake GESTAPO badges around.
Soneone will be along soon and offer a qualified opinion.
Looks like the pics are in the wrong order (because of the colour difference)

[hassiman]

Sorry about that... also one is a GESTAPO and the other a KRIPO

[Adrian Stevenson]

See here:

Warrant Discs of the Gestapo & Kripo

Cheers, Ade.

[Wagriff]

I definitely do not like the Kripo- it looks like it was made 2 years ago, but the Gestapo comes close. However, the shoulder caps on the eagle are wrong, when compared to known originals, and so I would have to say that both pieces are suspect and I would pass on them. The Gestapo could possibly be a variant type, but I doubt it.

[CARL]

Hello hassiman,

The link that Ade has added above, is the best possible advice that one can possibly receive. Don Bible is renowned for his expertise regarding the discs shown above. As to the authenticity of the pieces that you have shown, I have just examined the image of the Gestapo disc above, alongside an original example from Mr.Bible's site. I have to say, that it took me a long time to spot even a slight difference, and most of these discs are ruled out as replicas within moments. So, if it is a reproduction, then it is very close in appearance to the original examples. However, one must pay particular attention to the letters 'E' and 'I', as therein usually lie the faults. On the top of the letter 'E', on the piece shown by yourself, I noticed what appears to be a very slight difference to the original piece that I mentioned earlier. It looks slightly more rounded than the original, which seems to have a very sharp trim. In all honesty, I would want to see it in hand, with a glass and access to the images on Don Bible's website, to be able to call it either way as the shadows from different lighting can even mislead us when we are trying to make a decision, to an extent at least. For me, its not an easy call.

Regards,

Carl

[Jan S]

These two looks pretty good to me. If they are fakes then they are very good! Let's wait what Don say about them.

Jan

[Matt L]

Unfortunately, the images on Don's site aren't so large or so clear as to be truly useful for comparisons of tiny details, however looking at these and his side-by-side, I don't see any differences; even the serial number font appears to be identical. The eagles look the same in all their details that can be discerned and even things like the slightly low first 'S' in 'Staatspolizei' on the Gestapo disc are the same. The Es and Is all look the same to me- only things like the sizes of the letters, width of the edge bead and length of the number space underline we can't so easily compare.

The one thing I note is that when layered exactly, and then switching back and forth between them, it appears that the eagles on the two auction house discs are identical- that is to say they're made with the same die; it'd be important to know from Don whether or not this is the way the real ones were made or could have been made. A faker would doubtless use one die, and although it's reasonable to expect the Germans would have too. Don's only Kripo disc's eagle image isn't good enough to compare with the better Gestapo one.

[Wagriff]

Matt, If you take a close look at the original Gestapo disk on Don's sight, you'll see that there are actually differences between the one illustrated and this one. The most apparent being the original has shoulder capping and this one does not. The original shows 4 distinct segments-one over each shoulder and 2 in between them. These segments are raised and stand out and this one shown has no sign of any raised design area-even if you take into account possible wear, as the other areas show no heavy wear to account for the disappearance of the ridge. Another small difference can be seen at 3:O'clock on the eagle's chest. On the original, you'll see a 45 degree feather line on the edge of it running up and into the left, but there is no sign of one on the one posted. I also do not particularly like the beak's thickness. On originals,the beak does not begin from the eyebrow but this one looks to come straight out of the eyebrow. That could, of course, just be a trick of the lighting from the poor photo, but it is something that would have to be looked at closer. You're right about the fonts, but there looks to be a few significant differences there also. The "G" is thicker on the original on Don's site and the "O" has a flatter top and bottom on the one posted as opposed to the rounded appearance of the original one. All these small differences add up to a questionable piece, in my opinion.
I've looked at and handled probably more fakes than there ever were originals made, over the last 40 plus years and this disk does not get an immediate pass,in my opinion. One could argue that these are insignificant differences and could be from die variations, but if they are variations, they are ones that I am not familiar with- particularly the 2 letter differences. I think the fakers have just about gotten this tag down perfect-or as spooky close as they can get. A person has to have just about bulletproof provenance to pick up one of these tags these days. I think the Gestapo tags were one of the earliest faked things that I can remember seeing. They've had 4 or 5 decades to improve on them. As for the Kripo disk, I just don't like it at all. The appearance is much too new.

[nkumburis]

Can anyone post pictures of original examples? - Nick K