Fake Challenge #3

[Matt L]

Here's one more bad SS disc that illustrates well one more of the easy ways to recognize a fake- as before it's quite clear and unambiguous and not tricky at all and this photograph is definitely good enough to spot the problem.

The text reads:

90

SS- 2./ Panz. Rgt. 5 ,,Wiking"

[sitges1990]

The writing on the bottom of the tag should be upside down?

[Matt L]

That's a good try, but no- in fact rotating the disc for marking is rather less common than just marking both halves without moving it.

[Soldierblu]

OK as no one else seems to have answered.
The Stamp is not mirrored. They read the same insteed of one being upside down.
The Abbreviation for Panzer is incorrect it should be PZ not Panz.
maybe the stamp font seems a little wide on the P and R
and wasn't the 2nd regt motorised infantry?

[Matt L]

Ah, sitges just beat you to the first idea soldierblu

Your other suggestions are good ideas as well however:

Indeed sometimes there are abbreviations that we can say,the trouble is that this is all we can say- it wasn't wrong or never used anywhere, just that none of us has seen it on an Erkennungsmarke- in this case, however, I have several images of original discs with the abbreviation 'Panz.' used, thus it may be uncommon, but it is correct.

Sometimes stamps from different sets were used for capital and lower-case letters, or if all capital, large and small sets could be used. I've seen odd cases of a 'q' being used for a 'p', presumably because the latter stamp was lost, so the font being 'mismatched' doesn't suggest a problem- only specific fonts themselves are bad, but for reasons other than their nature.

And this is the 2. Kompanie, not 2. Regiment.

It's good though that you seem to be looking at multiple quite different aspects as very often a bad disc is recognized as such from an accumulation of circumstantial evidence- sometimes nothing alone shows for sure it's bad, but there are so many issues that it simply must be.

[sitges1990]

I looked at the two discs that I have and neither was rotated for the type. I've learned something there. So I could have saved that bad guess. You're giving us great info there Matt. Although I must admit, your statement that it is obvious, and I can't see it, is giving me an inferiority complex. How long are you going to make us wait amigo?

Jay

[Matt L]

Ah, okay, perhaps I shouldn't stress that bit so much- I only mean it's not tricky or so obscure that folks shouldn't expect not to see it or would be unlikely to guess it LOL

Okay, it's the unit description- the order of the text, which is a set and standard thing for the most part; in this case it's the position of the 'SS"- it's way wrong. 'SS' was actually an integral part of any unit type, i.e., SS-Panzerjäger, SS-Pionier, SS-Flak; so the proper text here would only ever be:

2./ SS-Panzer-Regiment 5

This serves a twofold purpose with respect to illustrating a way to recognize a fake:

1) the 'SS' is an integral part of unit type title

2) fakers will sometimes stamp original Heer discs with a fake SS someplace to try to pass it off as that- but there's rarely the space to put it where it must go, so it's out of place and thus odd like this one. I've also seen it done with 'HG' added- since that goes at the end, it's less-obvious a problem save that the font never matches and new markings on an old disc are usually noticably different due to the aging of the metal.

Now this one is all fake- just marked by someone who doesn't know what they were doing, which is good for us.

As I've said elsewhere, recognizing a fake is sometimes just accumulating circumstantial evidence and in this case there's some of that as well: I've never seen ,,Wiking" in this context or this way so that's dubious; the lettering is on the crude side, and I've actually collected images of at least two other very different units with the exact same letters therefore all are likely fake (and they are).

The faker inadvertently avoided one further way to bone himself by not putting on a blood group letter (if it's not on the back- I only have this one picture so don't know)- thus it could be expected this disc was not issued and was from the unit replacement stock, which couldn't immediatley be contested on its own account; were there a blood group letter, that'd be one more piece of evidence it's fakes- since SS-Panzer-Regiment 5 did not exist before the war, the only men likely to have ever carried a disc with its markings were those who lost thier original discs and required replacements- and there's virtually no way 90 men from this one, single Kompanie needed replacement discs. It's of far less value to conclude it to be unlikely that a unit would carry so many replacements, as nobody could truly prove that- who knows what someone thought they'd need? If it were 500, I'd agree, but 90 is not so ridiculous.

[Matt L]

So a further important thing to learn if one wants to collect Erkennungsmarken is the proper nomenclature and structure of German military units- fakers don't know it at all so are essentially copying characters and not knowing the meaning allows errors to creep in easily and thus give them away.

[gooseandspoons]

bravo matt!! man if i keep reading your posts on Erkennungsmarken i'll be able to spot fakes in no time.

[sitges1990]

Fantastic Matt! I love it, more, more.

Jay