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Fake Challenge IX

Article about: I'm not a collector of Erkennungsmarken but I love reading about it and learning. Keep it up Matt. Can't wait for the next one.

  1. #1
    ?

    Default Fake Challenge IX

    Okay folks, here's one more for you to mull over.

    This disc is a fake- its text reads:

    4./ SS-PZ. RGT. 11
    880

    which is: 4. Kompanie SS-Panzer-Regiment 11
    Stammrollennummer 880

    (4th company, SS-armored regiment 11, serial number 880)

    What is/are the issues that show it's definitely bad? Hint- it's not the physical disc or its condition. And the fuzzed-out Sigrunen is to avoid issues with the auction site's stupid rules LOL Nothing to do with presenting it as real and hiding a problem.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    No ideas at all?
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #3

    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    Hi mate, these confuse the hell out of me but... is it that SS-Panzer-Regiment 11 didnt have a 4 company as it was made up of 2 reserve battalions!?

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    No- that's a good try but SS-Pz. Rgt. 11 actually had a total of 8 Kompanien: 6 regular, one heavy and one of Pioniere. But that's the kind of thing to look at- did the parent unit even exist, and if so did the subunit. In this case there was indeed a 4./ SS-Pz. Rgt. 11, so that's not it...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #5

    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    Were there 880 in SS-Pz. Rgt. 11?

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    Bingo- mostly LOL It's were there 880 men in the 4. KOMPANIE, and there surely weren't. An Infanterie-type Kompanie had only nearly 300 men (at paper full strength), so it's unlikely an armoured Kompanie had nearly so many. The smallest unit type marked is the one whose records contained the information about the man holding the disc- usually the Kompanie.

    That's just the obvious issue- the fact that it's 880 on a field unit disc is also a major problem since such discs would usually have only been issued as replacement for lost ones (soldiers who entered the service after the war started came from replacement units- here the SS-Panzer-Ersatz-Regiment, for example- so carried discs from those, regardless of what field unit they went to). A disc from the SS-Panzer-Ersatz-Regiment with a Stammrollennummer of 880 would be no issue at all since literally thousands of men went through replacement units. But field untis are very different- if they existed at the start of the war, the men already serving got discs marked to it, so there would be a group with numbers up to the authorized strength or so, but for units created during the war, normally they only ever issued their own discs as replacements, so the serial numbers should be very low. Only in rare cases did a cadre get issued new discs with the new field unit marked on them- usually a man, whoever he was, would carry the same disc he was first issued with throughout his service time.

    Now to be sure, it could be suggested this disc is one of a stock the unit kept- as most certainly did- to give out as replacements, however to have 880 seems pretty unlikely. Again a replacement unit might have so many on hand, but a field unit- exceptionally doubtful.

    There's one other clear problem...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  8. #7

    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    Name? Blood group, details etc

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    No, during WWII the German system was to mark units only- it was only part way through WWI that they switched from unit, to name, birthdate, and home address PLUS units, but went back. The unit maintained a roster with all the necessary information. Only the Kriegsmarine ever put names on identity discs, and not for the whole war either.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  10. #9

    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    See, I have learnt 2 very important things from this thread that I wouldnt have If I didnt guess!
    Cheers Mate

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: Fake Challenge IX

    LOL Awesome- that's why I post these as questions rather than simple paragraphs. You don't learn nearly so well just passively reading as you do asking/ answering questions yourself.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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