Fake Challenge VIII

[Matt L]

Here's a new one folks- this disc once again is definitely fake and there are a couple of specific problems, any one of which would be sufficient to demonstrate that it's bad. There's also at least one small problem that would be a warning sign.

The abbreviations make the text read:

Stab, II. Bataillon, Grenadier-Ersatz-Bataillon Großdeutschland

[Matt L]

Nobody?

[Matt L]

Okay, the small problem I see is the quotation marks- in proper German punctuation, the first quotation mark should be low, the second high, not both high as we do in English (and, presumably other languages as well)- i.e., it would be ,,GD'' ; also it's not even necessarily normal for there to be quotation marks on a Großdeutschland disc- I have one that is real that has none.

[SatansCabanaBoy]

The metal for the tag doesn't seem right. Looks a little too "new".
Something is also not looking right to me with the font of the letters...the "B" looks like it is upside down?..and the II looks like on the top as if it was an upper case H used on it's side...I think I see just a hint of the middle dash that makes up the H..?

[Matt L]

True, SCB, the metal does have an odd look to it, and an artificial 'age' attempt could account for it- but that could be simply haphazard cleaning of a dirty surface, which would be perfectly fine. I also see what you mean about the hint of a cross bit making the 'II' look a little like a bad 'H', but the two verticals are misaligned that it'd have to be one heck of a crappily-made 'H', and they're both deep, so why would the horizontal cross not be? Plus the use of a 'replacement' stamp is actually perfectly reasonable- I have one original with the text 'Kp' actually marked 'Kq' presumably because the 'p' was broken or missing so they had to use a substitute.

No, the real problems are not cryptic- (hint, hint) and have to do with the unit text and unit, not the physicals of the disc...

[SatansCabanaBoy]

Forgive me, becasue I am still learning..but I want to take another try at this...

GEB stands for Grenadier Erstaz Batallion...?

Would that be part of Großdeutschland? I can only recall seeing GB with Panzer or Infantry regiments
...but I have not seen many...so I'm just taking a stab at it here


btw...I like the concept of the fake challenge thread...cool idea, cat

[Matt L]

Well the whole point of this is for those who want to learn to have an active way to do so- since passive reading isn't nearly as effective; so shoot away with whatever you've got.

Yes, GEB is Grenadier-Ersatz-Bataillon, and you're on the right track wondering about it, but your reason is mistaken- Grenadier IS Infanterie- in mid-1942 the term Infanterie changed to Grenadier, so there's no difference; a Grenadier (in the Wehrmacht) is simply an infantryman. And since the Großdeutschland was an infantry formation, the term Grenadier isn't out of place. And for clarification, you do have it wrong about Panzer formations- they had Panzergrenadier units specifically (which were originally called "Schützen" units- another terminology change).

And thanks- I'm glad you find these interesting if not useful

[SatansCabanaBoy]

Okay...I getting closer, eh?

Stab means that this is a headquarters unit...I am guessing...?

Would it have something to do with this being a headquarters unit (Stab) and being GEB..?

[Matt L]

Yes, that's the Headquarters Kompanie (Stabskompanie), and even a GEB certainly needed and had one, although I do wonder if it's reasonable to expect there might have been nearly 300 personnel in total in one; a standard field Infanterie-type combat Kompanie had a maximum strength of 295 personnel I think, but I don't know about the Stabskompanie- and an Ersatz unit had rather smaller numbers so the only way to account for such a relatively high number would be turnover- unfortunately Stabskompanie discs aren't common at all so it's hard to check.

Anyway, that's not the problem.

There are two very glaring problems discernable relatively easily using the things I've already menionted I think a couple of times in my treatises (LOL) on how to evaluate Erkennungsmarken... Hint: what's the very first thing one should look at?

[SatansCabanaBoy]

Price tag


I would look at physical characteristics first. Metal type, font, punctuation...

Then hit the books to makes sure the abbreviations were right, unit type existed...

I looked up your other threads on challenges, but I am missing it...



I know when you tell...I will groan...