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FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

Article about: Indeed often every single Kompanie made or contracted for its own discs, so this isn't surprising; of course we haven't see a 100% certain example from FJR5 so we can't say anything for sure

  1. #1

    Default FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hello to all,

    I'am already active for years in several other forums but in my search of the net I "stumbled" over this great site!

    I'm focussed on the battle of the bulge. In general I'm interested in books, maps and documents.

    Now, for the first time I think of buying an EKM, believed to be of 12./FjR 8.
    I posted the picture on other sites and had input of "3" persons.
    Looking for additional opinions I dare to launch a request for help here.

    Today I could go through a "Ho´dal" and was amazed to find a listed EKM of the same Coy - same Rgt (12./FjR 8) "Ho´dal" - on page 180 (Nr 678).

    Strangely, the markings - "Ho´dal example" versus "mine" (altough the same Coy!) differ!

    What do the experts think?

    Thank You
    Peter
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Well the unfortunate fact is it's extremely difficult to authenticate coded discs- there's just so little to examine, it's more down to one's feeling about a given example than anything. Fakes can be obvious, but judging authenticity is very tough. I look at this one and don't see anything obviously wrong, and I'd think the strangely large numbers, and very unusual layout- the Stammrollennummer following a dash following the unit code number, and the possible 'Tetanuz' stamp being a little 'T' below the dash- all seem too unusual to be bad LOL Fakers usually have little idea what they're doing so either blow things completely or follow a recognizable pattern; they rarely do anything 'original' so when things are atypical, but still quite correct, that's usually a good sign.

    You must be referring to H÷idal's second edition book because there's virtually nothing on coded discs in the first- so I can't check out the reference but usually different fonts are a problem; that being said, it's not unheard of for a unit to switch stamps, so if the serial numbers are significantly different that could explain it. Of course the more likely explanation is one or the other isn't real. There are a number of discs in his first book that I consider quite dodgy, and as I say coded discs are very tough to authenticate at times, so I certainly wouldn't automatically assume the one pictured is good.

    Me, I'd think this one has a good chance of being real- but unless something grabs me as looking virtually certain to be so, I would only buy it if it were cheap and thus worth the risk.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #3

    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hello Matt
    Thanks for giving your expert-opinion
    Here is a scan out of HO¤DAL II
    Peter
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #4
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    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Strange- what exactly is the number on 'your' disc Peter? Is it '17' or, '17-something'- the top almost looks like a badly squashed '117'. That'd certainly be a problem LOL I see no reason to believe the example H÷idal shows is real, although the slash separating the unit code and Stammrollennummer is less odd than a dash; otherwise it's just as much a case of 'anyone's guess' unless he has other proof- like it came from the former wearer or something. Myself, I'd be rather less-inclined to take a chance on that second one than the one you showed- but still, in the absence of any additional information, I'd consider both a 'buy only if really cheap' piece- particluarly because it may never be possible to really authenticate them.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #5

    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hi Matt
    I believe that it is only "17" but first it was, IMO, a "11" changed into "17", the other half shows only the "17" (without correction)
    Peter
    ??????

  7. #6
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    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    That's possible- after recognizing the extra '1' on the top, I wondered if the line beyond the '7' on the bottom was another '7' just badly stamped. It'd have been very suspicious to see '117' on both- that's exactly the silly thing a faker would do, but a mis-stamp is not at all uncommon on real discs; one can easily imagine how easy it'd be after a whole day of picking up stamp, striking it, putting it down, grabbing the next one, striking it, putting it down- sounds like a mind-numbingly terrible job LOL To me, mis-stamps are a good thing- fakers wouldn't bother to correct such things I should think, since the serial number doesn't much matter to them.

    So with a hundred discs between 'yours' and the H÷idal example, I'm doubtful of the 'change-of-stamp-set' explanation for the different font- a Kompanie had more than 100 men in it, so all the discs should look the same for the first group at least I should think.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  8. #7

    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hi Matt

    "So with a hundred discs between 'yours' and the H÷idal example, I'm doubtful of the 'change-of-stamp-set' explanation for the different font- a Kompanie had more than 100 men in it, so all the discs should look the same for the first group at least I should think."

    Putting all together; would you conclude:
    "mine" to be the "good-on" - Ho´dal shows a "fake-one/replica ..."?

    Thanks
    Peter

  9. #8
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    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Well that's difficult to say since the H÷idal example is a rather basic printed picture, and neither one could be real in truth. Again neither would be a safe buy unless they're super cheap and thus it's worth taking the chance that one day maybe there'd be a reason to say good or bad with some certainty- but it wouldn't be a big loss if that day never comes.

    But 'yours' looks better to me- at least judging from that less-than-optimal photo too LOL The weird 'snaking' corrosion pattern you see in a couple of places is one I've seen on many aluminum discs and to me that's an indentifiable realistic feature- the one thing I can't tell from that photo is whether or not the corrosion is over the stamping or under it; obviously it could be an original, corroded blank that someone's stamped and aged further- but without a good photo, that's tough to tell.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  10. #9

    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hi Matt,
    Thanks for the last update/expertise.
    I'll try to get better Pics...
    Peter

  11. #10

    Default Re: FJ-Erkennungsmarke original?

    Hello Matt
    Here is a picture of a EKM (13./FjR5), strange that material, markings ... can appear so different between sub-units of the same Division.

    Or is this one no good?

    Peter
    Enjoy the week-end
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