Heeres - Küsten - Artillerie - Abteilung 476

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Hi,

This german Id disc arrived at my home today.

Heeres - Küsten - Artillerie - Abteilung 476
...this unit was in Denmark during ww2...Die Heeres-Ksten-Artillerie-Abteilungen

I have a great interest in the Atlantic Wall - especially the part in Denmark.
...therefore, I bought this Id disc.

Quit rare, I think!

Regards
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[Matt L]

Very interesting- not to be a killjoy, but were you given any proof that it's real? Because it would indeed be quite rare, since the unit only existed with that designation for 5 1/2 months- from 16. October, 1941 to 3. April, 1942; that's a very short time. Most soldiers have discs from their initial replacement units, so wouldn't be issued one from their field units- like this one; usually field units only issue replacement discs if a soldier loses his, for example, and it's highly unlikely over 1300 replacement discs were ever needed in a unit that only existed for half a year. They might have had a stock made for replacement purposes, but it's hard to believe they'd have so many.

The disc itself has a couple of worrying features as well: the rounded ends of the Trennschlitzen are not typical of real discs, but they're not uncommon on fakes; and the roll number being put between the cord holes on the top and angled to the side of the bottom hole is a very common layout on fakes, but almost never that way on real discs. It's also odd that there's no Batterie number- just the main Abteilung. It's not unheard-of, but it's very uncommon.

So, being a very interesting disc to Danish collectors- fakers often target very specialized collectors- and having a bunch of features that immediately raise red flags, I'd hope there's some very solid proof from the seller that the disc is in fact authentic...

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Hi,

Thanks for answer.

There was not given any proof that this Id disc is original.

Would it have been more commom if there were a batteri number?

Most of the H.K.B. (Heeresküstenbatterien) in Denmark was first employed as field batteries(1941)
...but month later, work started on the permanent emplacement of the batteries.

Could this be why this unit only excisted 5 1/2 month?
...and why there is no batteri number on the Id disc - because the permanent batteries first came later.

In 1944/1945 the batteries in Denmark were heavy fortifications.
48 Batteries under M.A.A. ( Marineartillerieabteilung )
23 Batteries under H.K.A.R. ( Heeres-Küsten-Artillerie-Regiment )
20 Batteries under M.FL.A. ( Marine-Flak-Abteilung )

1781 permanent bunkers constructed total.

On this Id disc....ID-tag from Denmark.
...the roll number is also put between the cord holes - this one is original.

Regards
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[Matt L]

That's too bad- it'd have been really helpful if the seller had something concrete to say the disc is authentic for certain.

Yes, a Batterie/Kompanie number is a normal component of the unit text on an Erkennungsmarke; it's not at all common to lack this basic subunit. Indeed, it might have been something typical for this particular Abteilung- there are some units that issued discs from the parent formation- Abteilung, Regiment or even Division- but they're quite uncommon.

This unit only existed for 5 1/2 months because it was used to form a new unit- HKA 444. In fact, the text says 476 went to form the Stab of 444, which seems to suggest it was quite small. Why exactly they chose to use 476 to make 444 isn't really relevant to the Erkennungsmarke though- the point was the unit existed for such a short time, it's hard to believe they issued so many discs. Some of the HKAs listed had 3 Batterien, at least one other one is listed as having been used to form the Stab of a new one just like 476, so it does seem some were on the small side.

Most importantly, the Lexikon listing states that it was Artillerie-Ersatz-Abteilung 43 that supplied troops to HKA 476; that technically means most or all the men in HKA476 carried discs with that marking- making it even harder to believe this disc is real I'm afraid; the number is way too high and technically nobody should have ever had a disc with that marking anyway. Of course that's ideally- and the ideal isn't always what happened.

Unfortunately, unit organizations in 1944/45 really don't help since things were sometimes very, very different that late; we're talking about a unit from 1941/42, so only the way they were organized then really tells us anything.

And I didn't say roll numbers between the cord holes is wrong, just that it's quite uncommon, but is very, very common on fakes. It's so common, that it's one detail that automatically means one should be suspicious of a disc.