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help with these 2 items please

Article about: Ok guys gotta ask for help on these please. I spent quite awhile reading posts and trying to figure these out but just havent the time and patience to keep going. After well over an hour if

  1. #1

    Default help with these 2 items please

    Ok guys gotta ask for help on these please. I spent quite awhile reading posts and trying to figure these out but just havent the time and patience to keep going. After well over an hour if not two I have to admit to myself I don't know jack crap about these type items. I learned quite a bit and found the posts really informative though but dont think 1 nights studying is gonna make me an expert, in fact I realized how much there is to learn about ID disks. These were acquired by my dad at auction and have found few other fake items from same lot so am already skeptical. I'm gonna give a shot though. My guess is 1st item is fake. In hand it just seems flimsy and could be bent with bare hands w/o too much effort. The metal appears wrong judging from other pics i've seen,(never had an original in hand),couldnt really match font with any in the sticky post archive and not sure if the wording is correct. Is it supposed to be 3rd Stb batt. of the 8th SS police regt? Also the metal isnt at all smooth looking and the hole looksClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	361537 off center. (pic #1 is back of disk) It is magnetic if that helps. Dont know what exactly 2nd item is supposed to be and if not appropriate for post here I apologize.Only thing I remember seeing like it maybe called it like a laundry disk youd get when you dropped off uniforms for laundering or tailor maybe. Its not magnetic and note all scuffs on front and dirt caked on back.Both items fake i'll guess but help appreciated greatly. Thanks! Jeff B.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	361532Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    Hi Jeff,

    Well I'm not so sure either one is bad- the large one sounds like, from what you describe, a Nirostahl form (stainless steel), which is magnetic, can be quite thin and would age the way yours has. The bottom hole isn't off-center, that's just an illusion- the lower right edge seems to have degraded, throwing the shape's symmetry off and making the hole look too far over to that side; but if you look at its position relative to the Trennschlitzen- the slits at the top (in the middle of the disc), it's fine. The marking isn't suspicious, and in fact being made by individual, long-text, dedicated stamps (one for 'Stab.' one for 'III./' and one for 'SS-Pol. Rgt. 8' judging by there being a bit of an angle between each) is a good sign- fakers rarely have such specific stamps made up, and when they do, you see more than one example- and I've not seen one before. The roll number is appropriately just individual stamped numbers, and the 'FR' stands for 'Freiwilliger'- volunteer- so the disc didn't belong to an SS-man at all, but rather a civilian/ Russian POW or the like employed in some sort of ancillary job. Not much value there since it's not a German soldier's disc, so not really worth faking- which is great LOL You have the 'translation' mostly right- it's the Staff of the III. Battalion of SS-Police Regiment 8.

    The other one is some kind of garment tag- for a gray tunic (Rock, Grau). It's marked to the 3. SS-Totenkopf-Standarte. The reverse certainly makes it appear legitimate and being embossed rather than stamped means it wouldn't be just simple for anyone to make- dedicated dies and a press would be necessary, and they're not something any faker would invest in for a tag that really has little value...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #3

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    wow Matt very informative and insightful. The first one looks like you described, stainless steel and pretty thin. Even if not very valuable still cool things for the collection I didnt have before. I appreciate the obvious amount of time you spent on this for me. Thanks again! Jeff

  5. #4

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    Oh, as an afterthought would you say because the disk has been broken in two that the owner was wounded or KIA? thanks

  6. #5

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    Sure thing Jeff- it's something to do with my coffee in the mornings

    The purpose of being able to break a disc is to have a physical record of a soldier's death, yes, however it seems to have been fairly common for people to 'destroy' Erkennungsmarken by breaking them in half too- particularly at some POW sites (where groups capitulated, were gathered or actual camps), and places where it's known German units ended the war and it was each man for himself to try to get home (they'd often discard all identifying materials). In this case it's possible the guy was killed and this was the half collected to record it, or he just broke it and threw it away when the war ended so he wouldn't be identified as having worked for the Germans. There's no way to know.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  7. #6

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    very interesting Matt, I can see someone ditching their disk so as not to be connected with the Germans. I'm sure just about anything and everything was possible during the pandemonium that must have been, especially during those last few months of the war. Once again I thank you for your time and your expedient replies. I learned a few new things from this. Take care. Jeff B.

  8. #7

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    Hey Matt one more newbie question please. Is it on me to close the thread once its came to a conclusion? I am satisfied with your input on these and just wondered if I should checkmark the close this thread box or how that works, thanks, Jeff

  9. #8

    Default Re: help with these 2 items please

    Actually threads aren't normally closed; closing a thread specifically prevents any future posting in it, so is only done under certain circumstances, by a moderator or administrator. Normally, threads are just left alone and sometimes in searching old ones, people come across something they can add to and we get new information.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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