Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

I.D. Tag information HELP!

Article about: Yes, well that's the problem- often it's quite complicated LOL The TOE you found does show field units that might be appropriate choices if you take my second idea- issuing 'replacement' dis

  1. #1

    Default I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Hello All, If you would be so kind....... I need some help w/I.D. tag information.

    I am a WW2 re-enactor and for an event this Summer i would like to make up some simple German I,D. tags as a "keep-sake" of this battle, for the guys in my Unit. We will be portraying members of the Herman Goring Div. in Italy, March 1944. The event is called "March on Rome", so as you may have already figured out, we are defending/falling back to Rome on Highway 6. We are a Panzer Unit with a working Pz III, halftracks, etc.....

    It is my understanding that this would have been just BEFORE they were redesignated Fallschirm-Panzer-Division Hermann Göring in April 1944.

    Can someone please give me a run down of what an I.D. tag from this Unit would have looked like?
    Many Thanks, Paul.

    P.S. I plan to stamp the back with the event name and dates so I think there would be no chance of any one thinking this is an original. PB.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    OK, 36 veiws and no replies??? Is it that no one knows what would be correct, or did I make a request that is in some way "Taboo"?

    Here is what I found so far.......
    Person looking for information on a relative stated his great uncle was in a Luft Unit,(Poss. HG), that,"is missing in action since 18th of July 1943 belonging to the '1./Panzer Grenadier Regiment 1'" fighting in Italy. His dog tag information was listed as "3. Flg. Ausb.R.72". I think this means "3rd Company. Flight. Training. Regt. 72"
    Could this be correct?

    There is also the 3 "HG Div" tags listed on this site,(page 3 of this forum section), Would they be more correct for the time frame i am looking at?
    Thank you, Paul.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Hi Paul,

    No, it's not a 'taboo' question, it's just not a simple one; as you found German soldiers' Erkennungsmarken could often be completely unpredictable when starting with their field units- I know quite a lot about the system and wouldn't have expected a Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment would possibly supply troops to a Hermann Göring field Regiment. And you're further complicating things by asking for a specific time period

    I've had a look at the references and unfortunately all the specific replacement and training units I can find titled "Hermann Göring" either are just as odd as the one you found or came into being later than you want (some as late as 2. 45).

    It's just unfortunate for this purpose that you chose probably the most difficult unit possible- were you any other Panzer unit, I could give you a perfectly plausible answer, but the HG... I'm afraid I have nothing. The Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment sounds dubious as a reasonable 'keepsake' marking unless you're okay with the possibility that it could well be a relatively rare disc for an HG soldier to wear.

    Oh and I don't know what you mean by 'page 3 of this forum section'- the third topic from the top is a link to the Lexikon der Wehrmacht site and p. 3 of the first thread is all about fakes, so definitely those would be inappropriate choices (plus IIRC the units are the ones I mentioned created after the time you want).

    You could theoretically issue discs with the actual field unit you're using but they'd have to be numbered starting with 1 since field units like this would only ever issue discs as replacements for ones lost. Of course there might never have been a man who got one- it wasn't a common thing to be sure. But you are just looking for keepsakes, not super-accurate usable recostruction kit. I'm afraid that's the best I can do as far as help goes- the only way to know more would be to hit up folks who collect Soldbücher and Wehrpaße and have an HG one from the right unit as those would have the man's Erkennungsmarke marking listed.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  5. #4

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    I understand the reason you are asking but the question "some simple German I,D. tags" isn't a simple one. Couldn't you make ID tags with their real names, units in the area and the event name?

  6. #5

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    Hi Paul,

    No, it's not a 'taboo' question, it's just not a simple one; as you found German soldiers' Erkennungsmarken could often be completely unpredictable when starting with their field units- I know quite a lot about the system and wouldn't have expected a Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment would possibly supply troops to a Hermann Göring field Regiment. And you're further complicating things by asking for a specific time period

    I've had a look at the references and unfortunately all the specific replacement and training units I can find titled "Hermann Göring" either are just as odd as the one you found or came into being later than you want (some as late as 2. 45).

    It's just unfortunate for this purpose that you chose probably the most difficult unit possible- were you any other Panzer unit, I could give you a perfectly plausible answer, but the HG... I'm afraid I have nothing. The Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment sounds dubious as a reasonable 'keepsake' marking unless you're okay with the possibility that it could well be a relatively rare disc for an HG soldier to wear.

    Oh and I don't know what you mean by 'page 3 of this forum section'- the third topic from the top is a link to the Lexikon der Wehrmacht site and p. 3 of the first thread is all about fakes, so definitely those would be inappropriate choices (plus IIRC the units are the ones I mentioned created after the time you want).

    You could theoretically issue discs with the actual field unit you're using but they'd have to be numbered starting with 1 since field units like this would only ever issue discs as replacements for ones lost. Of course there might never have been a man who got one- it wasn't a common thing to be sure. But you are just looking for keepsakes, not super-accurate usable recostruction kit. I'm afraid that's the best I can do as far as help goes- the only way to know more would be to hit up folks who collect Soldbücher and Wehrpaße and have an HG one from the right unit as those would have the man's Erkennungsmarke marking listed.
    Hello All,

    Thank you very much Matt L for the reply and the offer to help!
    No, I am not tied to the idea of using the "Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment", its just a ref. i found on line to a guy that claims his great uncle was with the Herman Goring Div. in Italy and turned up as MIA. I would love to make my tags with some ref. to "H G" on them.

    Let me see if I can explain this is a differant way........ I belong to a WW2 re-enactment group that portrays many differant Units/uniforms at differant reenactments. This July/Aug. there is an event called "March on Rome", set in the time frame of March 1944, and most in my group are planning to portray soldiers from the Herman Goring Div. One gent in our group will be bringing his Pz III and a half track, the rest of us will be support for those vehicles. Because we may never get to portray the HG Div. again, (and it is my favorate Unit!), I would like to make a few ID tags for the troops that will remind them of this event in years to come.

    I would like to find what the common soldier of this time frame ,(Italy- March 1944 or before- HG Div.- and maybe some form of Panzer support or Panzer crew), would have had stamped on his ID tag, so I can pre-stamp a few tags, and then stamp the rooster number and blood group on when i get there.
    I am not asking for information on how to make a copy of an original......just what would be correct for the common soldier that we hope to portray/honor at this reenactment.

    The ref. I made to "page 3 of this forum" is this....... if you are on this forum and go to the "Erkennungsmarken- ID discs" section, then move to page 3 in the history, you should find a thread about half way down the list, where another gentleman has posted pictures of three "HG Div." ID tags he has and was asking if they were real or fakes,(one of the tags is duck-taped together!). All agreed they were real.
    I was just asking if the information on one of these tags would be more correct for a Soldier in the HG Div., March 1944 or before, in Italy.
    Thanks again for all your help, I know this is alot to ask. Paul.

    p.s. Not sure if this matters, but I have a very simple stamp set of all cap letters. Like I said before, not trying to copy an original..... just make a keep-sake for the troops. Thanks, PB.

  7. #6

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Quote by vegaslvr View Post
    I understand the reason you are asking but the question "some simple German I,D. tags" isn't a simple one.
    YES! I am starting to understand this now! I guess when I said "simple", I meant simple for me to understand and duplicate. Also, simple so that one ID tag information will cover the Tank driver down to the tank Infantry support soldier......... I can see now that this may not work!

    You are very correct, i plan to stamp the back of these tags w/ the event name, dates, and if they want the name of the soldier it was issued too.
    Thanks for the help, Paul.

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Indeed- the German system was quite diffferent to the Allied in that every soldier wore an identity disc issued by whatever replacement unit he joined- of which there were literally hundreds and hundreds- regardless of the field unit he was eventually posted to (obviously Heer stayed with Heer, LW with LW, etc.). Sometimes if it was a specialist unit, that would be consistent, but not always- so often every man in a unit would have a differently-marked identity disc!

    There was a paper relationship between replacement units and field units that's sometimes recognizable in practice, but obviously wartime pressures meant men went where they were needed so often it's impossible to discern a man's field unit from his disc marking and vice versa. In the case of the HG, your one example bears this out.

    That being said, since the HG did have its own replacement units that certainly didn't supply anyone else, that would be helpful but unfortunately all but a Flak unit are listed as having been created after the time you want. There is no listing for the Ersatz-Regiment Division HG, which is what those discs you found are marked (sorry about not realizing what you meant) so I can't say just when it was created or how it was organized. Until just now I had thought it definitely inappropriate since the one Soldbuch pictured in that group was from a Flak man- his rank Kanonier, means he was an artilleryman. The one 'early' HG replacement unit that is listed is specifically a Flak unit, so I sort of expected this might be an offshoot or something similar. And its dated 12. 44 so much too late to prove the unit even existed in late 1943, which would be the necessary factor to be appropriate for a man in the field by 3. 44.

    But I just realized that it may be the case that the Ersatz-Regiment for the HG might have had a different Kompanie for each of its specialists, rather than separate units as everyone else did; it's unheard of anywhere else for an Ersatz-Regiment to have a 12. Kompanie, but the HG clearly did and they certianly had no need of so many gunners- so perhaps something like 1.-8. were Grenadiers, 9. was MG, 10. was Panzerjäger, 11. was Pionier and 12. was Flak? It's just a wild guess, but possible. And the disc specifically marked 'Div. HG' seems likely to be an earlier form since it's just Ersatz-Regiment and not Ersatz-und Ausbildungs-Regiment (which is usual- the latter was usually created after the former), plus I can see adding the 'Div' being almost a pride thing after the unit was raised to Division status in 1942. It seems to have fallen by the wayside by late 1944, at least in the case of the Ers. u. Ausb. Rgt. .

    The only problem with all this is that it's very theoretical as to whether or not it's appropriate for soldiers taking part in your action- you simply can't say at this point that any of the men who were really there wore a disc like this. We simply don't have enough information about the units to make more than an educated guess. That's why I suggested the field unit-marked discs- if you know the unit was there, you know such discs existed as every unit likely had a supply in case they were needed. Again its possible no man in the unit ever wore one, but they certainly could have and really it would more specifically relate to your event- just as I mentioned, keep the serial numbers extremely low, starting with 1 as that's how the real things would have been.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #8

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    OK, My head is spinning pretty good right now.... but let me see if I understand what you are saying.

    Also, I found this chart: Basic Organization of Panzergrenadier-Regiment in SS and Luftwaffe Panzer-Division
    If you look at "Table 25" it seems to show that Company "2" was a Panzer Gren. Unit. (I think?).

    SO!, If I go with "2/ Ers. Rgt. Div. H.G." on one line , and keep the roster number low (start with #1 and go no higher than the 20's???), am I on the right track?

    Also, I should not use the same "#2" for Unit Number and Roster number?

    Also, try and find differant blood group stamps?

    I understand that alot of this is just an educated guess...... but its a VERY educated guess and I think the troops will be very impressed!
    Many thanks Matt for helping me to understand this and for explaining it so well. Paul.

  10. #9
    qm612
    ?

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Could you post a pic of the ID tag?
    It does not need to be stamped.

  11. #10

    Default Re: I.D. Tag information HELP!

    Hello All, As I was looking at that ID Tag again, I think my 1/8th inch and 3mm stamps are two small. Should I go for a bigger size or just stay with the small digits. Thank you, Paul.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Dog tag from "Hermann Goering" Division

    In Erkennungsmarken- ID discs
    04-03-2013, 12:20 AM
  2. Me109E Wartungklappe Hatch LW Fly Tag Info Needed

    In Armour, Weapons, & Aircraft recovery
    09-04-2010, 04:13 PM
  3. Possible POW ID tag

    In Erkennungsmarken- ID discs
    02-19-2010, 08:12 PM
  4. Pioneer Tag #2 Another Good one?

    In Erkennungsmarken- ID discs
    07-20-2009, 05:00 PM
  5. NEED HELP information on SS OFFICER

    In History and Research Third Reich and WW2
    12-22-2008, 10:42 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •