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Just bought this disc

Article about: by Redgemak Where do you think all of those disk come from? a supermarket? It's like buying a military rifle which hasn't killed anyone, a real clean one. Jean Huh? Are you trying to suggest

  1. #11
    ?

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    You can only make that statement if you can conclusively prove that no other conditions can produce such oxidation patterns- a significant percentage of soil is decomposing organic materials and depending on what they are, what the water supply is like and the minerals around, acidity levels can vary greatly from place to place. The most one can reasonably say it would seem, from Dimas' experience, is that the appearance could be consistent with a grave dug disc, but it's definitely not the only or perhaps even the main possibility.

    I have a couple with this kind of oxidation on them myself and I've always been very careful to only deal with reputable people; moreover my records indicate that the two I just looked at were recovered by a guy I know personally, who's never even found any human remains but lots and lots of materials that were discarded at the end of the war. He sends me images of his finds constantly and has done for years- the conditions vary greatly depending on the specific, local soil conditions because they vary greatly.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Where do you think all of those disk come from? a supermarket?
    It's like buying a military rifle which hasn't killed anyone, a real clean one.

    Jean

  4. #13

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    You can only make that statement if you can conclusively prove that no other conditions can produce such oxidation patterns- a significant percentage of soil is decomposing organic materials and depending on what they are, what the water supply is like and the minerals around, acidity levels can vary greatly from place to place. The most one can reasonably say it would seem, from Dimas' experience, is that the appearance could be consistent with a grave dug disc, but it's definitely not the only or perhaps even the main possibility.

    I have a couple with this kind of oxidation on them myself and I've always been very careful to only deal with reputable people; moreover my records indicate that the two I just looked at were recovered by a guy I know personally, who's never even found any human remains but lots and lots of materials that were discarded at the end of the war. He sends me images of his finds constantly and has done for years- the conditions vary greatly depending on the specific, local soil conditions because they vary greatly.
    Can you tell me what unit the disc is from? Maybe I can research it and we can investigate further.

  5. #14
    ?

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Pi-Btl. 30

    Part of 30 Infanterie Divison a veteran Army Group North and Army Group Kurland Divison , where was the tag recovered ?
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  6. #15

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Quote by Paul E View Post
    Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Pi-Btl. 30

    Part of 30 Infanterie Divison a veteran Army Group North and Army Group Kurland Divison , where was the tag recovered ?
    Thanks! It is coming from Latvia.

  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Probably the south west of Kurland the area near Bunkas , Priekule etc positions of 30 ID in the pocket !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #17

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Now I have a question about this disc, Dimas. Does this look suspect to you too? I'm feeling kinda horrible now...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #18

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Don't feel so bad, at the end of the day what does it matter anyway? (apart from possibly supporting illegal digging) All the things we buy belonged to people who are now almost certainly dead.

    These discs may have been taken from remains but then again, maybe not. As long as you treat them with the respect they deserve and preserve the history then it's nothing to feel horrible about IMO.

    You've learnt something, I've learnt something so the good out of this is that perhaps we are now a little better educated in the fight against grave robbers.

    Just my 2 cents worth...

  10. #19

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Quote by Glenn66 View Post
    Don't feel so bad, at the end of the day what does it matter anyway? (apart from possibly supporting illegal digging) All the things we buy belonged to people who are now almost certainly dead.

    These discs may have been taken from remains but then again, maybe not. As long as you treat them with the respect they deserve and preserve the history then it's nothing to feel horrible about IMO.

    You've learnt something, I've learnt something so the good out of this is that perhaps we are now a little better educated in the fight against grave robbers.

    Just my 2 cents worth...
    Well, I have relatives who never came home and I would hate to think that some scumbag took their personal belongings. I collect because I love history. It's a great thing that many of our nations went to war against each other, and are now chums. It's beautiful how old wounds heal, imo. Most soldiers were not murderous thugs. They were drafted and/or answered the call. There were bad apples in every bunch, but the regular man was fulfilling their duty. These men were from a great generation, where there were no ipods or stupid reality tv shows. People forget the sacrifice of our elders. We should all remember those who were part of a fragile time in history. I do not want to have "black relics" in my collection. These warriors need to come home! Sorry for the rant....

  11. #20
    ?

    Default Re: Just bought this disc

    Quote by Glenn66 View Post
    Don't feel so bad, at the end of the day what does it matter anyway? (apart from possibly supporting illegal digging) All the things we buy belonged to people who are now almost certainly dead.

    These discs may have been taken from remains but then again, maybe not. As long as you treat them with the respect they deserve and preserve the history then it's nothing to feel horrible about IMO.
    Well the problem is not just 'grave robbing', which may or may not be any big deal depending on one's point-of-view (archaeologists do it professionally afterall LOL), it's when complete discs are taken away from remains that there's potentially a problem: a whole disc means the soldier's death may not have been recorded, and thus he may be an MIA. I believe there are over a million German soldiers still listed as 'Vermisst' and there are still family members who are affected by it. Take the disc and the man will forever be just missing.

    And without remains, a disc is of no use even if the man is listed as missing- i.e., one can't just report a disc and have it help out at all because millions of discs were lost or discarded and are found by the dozens every day across Europe, and a loose disc can't prove anything.

    That's the rub though- there were so many discs made and so many are just dug up every day that the vast, vast majority are not associated with missing soldiers; so do you just pass on all of them to avoid the tiny percentage that may be?

    As I've said many times, I have a friend in Europe whose own group of friends hobby metal-detects and they find discs every time they go out- not once have they found any remains; hundreds and hundreds of discs, in all sorts of conditions, broken and unbroken, all discarded or confiscated and dumped on battlefields, field hospital sites, and surrender sites, which are all over Europe. So in reality there seems to be no way to really tell if a disc was taken from a grave- all one can do is deal with people one trusts to not do anything like that... or find a new area of interest
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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