Need Help Please, Real or Fake??

[noble]

This was his decription that, it was part of the 11th Panzer Division and served on the Eastern front outside Stalingrad.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Matt L]

I have no doubts that one is real- usually these very stylized fonts are legitimate since nobody commercially makes ones like this today. And yeah, it seems the 6. Armee connection is right- the Lexikon der Wehrmacht site says that in 1940 the I. Bataillon went to form part of the new Schützen-Regiment 103, which was part of the 14. Panzer-Divison (not the 11.), which was part of the 6. Armee.

[Glenn66]

OK, just to confuse matters here, I have this erkennungsmarken from Schtz Regt 111 except the notarization is 'mot' (motorized). Is there an anomaly here?

[Matt L]

Well Schützen/Panzergrenadier units are really by definition motorized- they're part of the Schnelle-Truppen; otherwise they'd be simply Infanterie. I looked and there's not a single Schützen or Panzergrenadier-Regiment that's '(mot.)' so it must be automatically understood. It only make sense to designate motorization if it's not always normal- Infanterie or Artillerie units, for example, were not always motorized, so for them it's appropriate to mention it.

Why then Glenn's disc would have it isn't clear but it might have something to do with it being so early- perhaps desgnating a unit as motorized was new at the time and still not so set as to who should use it and who shouldn't- or maybe the 1. Kompanie actually wasn't at first and the 2. Kompanie was?

It's also not impossible that Glenn's disc isn't real- it sure looks okay, but the 'mot.' really is out of place; and since the 1. Kompanie disc was made with a dedicated text stamp and the number '1' is added, that would seem to suggest the 2., 3., and 4. Kompanien should have the same discs- the text is for the entire I. Bataillon afterall. That being said, it's not necessarily certain the 2. Kompanie wouldn't for some reason have to make their own discs- supply could have been dodgy or something like that. It might explain too why they'd have the 'mot.'- someone is told the pre-stamped discs aren't available so get them made elsewhere and the text as that guy figures it should be is given to the maker?

[Glenn66]

just to confuse things a little more, I note the 1st Kompanie disc is for sale on ebay from a British seller and I bought the 2nd Kompanie disc from a digger in Volgograd.

[Glenn66]

A quick google search has found this site Basic Organization of Schützen-Regiment (mot.) in 1940 which adds the '(mot)' to every Schutzen Regiment title. Does that have any impact?

[Glenn66]

Another Schutz Bataillon disc from my collection also displays the 'mot' title. Being an ersatz unit would place the unit later in the war but before the name change from Schutzen to Grenadier correct? Would that be 1941 or 1942?

[Matt L]

Oh strange- my list has no 'mot.'s at all, neither does the Lexikon der Wehrmacht (probably the same source though- Tessin). And only one of the discs shown on the emarken.de site has it. Well I suppose that it's still possible it was just used by some and not others- and that organization site could just be automatically applying it everywhere because I own a couple of discs and a couple of the ones on the emarken.de site are ones from the list and they have no 'mot.' in the title.

I guess the difference between the two 111 discs will just remain a mystery for the moment. And it was Schützen changed to Panzergrenadier, not just Grenadier (that was Infanterie); it was in mid-1942, but since your disc's roll number is just 67, it's from late 1939 for sure. The unit was only created in August, and this guy must have been one of the first group through.

[Paul D]

This was his decription that, it was part of the 11th Panzer Division and served on the Eastern front outside Stalingrad.

Thanks in advance for the help.

I have the exact same tag with the number 62 bought in the foyer of the Hotel Intourist in Volgograd !

[Paul D]

Got two tags to Mot units both from Stalingrad , but both Mot are in brackets and the mot is in small letters not capitals,

cheers

Paul