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NEW Authenticity Challenge

Article about: One can see from OOBs and unit histories as well that LAH or LSSAH were the only correct ways the unit is ever identified- looking at names and such is the most direct way to check authentic

  1. #11
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    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    One can see from OOBs and unit histories as well that LAH or LSSAH were the only correct ways the unit is ever identified- looking at names and such is the most direct way to check authenticity after checking whether or not a unit even existed. It certainly casts enough doubt on the disc to make anyone pass on it, however there are more issues that definitely make it clear it's a fake- anyone spot them? There's one that's 100% definite proof, three more significant errors that are sufficient as a group to leave no doubt, and one small but common oddity that should always be considered cause for concern.

    The other one's still a mystery
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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  3. #12

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    matt i will give you this "its a damn good thread" learning a hell of a lot more. well done its very interesting reading!

  4. #13
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    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Well thanks Tom, glad it's helpful
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  5. #14
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    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    196 views and 3 people posted... ?

    Oh well. Here are the answers for all who care:

    One obvious problem is that the serial numbers are made with the same stamp set- notice how the number '2' is identical; that's a fatal flaw. Two very different units would never have anything like that in common; the only exception is that part way through the war there was a form of standard blood group letter set that was issued- it wasn't a universal issue by any means, but one can find discs from quite different units with identical blood group letters on them. With respect to the numbers, they're also a well-known fake type.

    The first disc's obvious features have been noted already- not bad letters and 'age', however the unit is completely screwed up; as was also noted, the SS is in the wrong place, but also missing since every unit in the Waffen SS had "SS" as part of it- this should be SS-Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 1. It's not 100% true that all discs had the SS, however it is proper and if missing is a cause for concern; since it's not like the rest of it is fine and/or it's known to not have the SS on it, it is a feature that goes into the bad category. It's also dubious that the LSSAH would be present- it's not part of this particular unit's formal title, so doesn't fit on the disc. It's also purporting to be a Regiment that had a central roll and not one for each Batterie, which is dubious; rolls were usually at the small-unit level- Kompanie, Batterie, Schwadron, etc.- not at the Regiment level. The serial number is way too high for the proper Batterie roll, but I expect that's just the faker doing something reasonable unintentionally LOL It may be that SS-Pz.Art.Rgt. 1 was one of those rare units that had a central roll, but it'd have to be proven. The disc is already definitely a fake so even if it is true, it wouldn't matter. As a rule of thumb, there should always be a Kompanie, Batterie, etc. and the roll number should be accordingly appropriate (there wouldn't have ever been over 2200 men in a single Batterie even over the course of the entire war). Another 'red-flag' feature is the split-up roll number around the bottom hole- fakers do this a lot for some reason and it's virtually never seen on a real disc. It should always be something that catches one's attention and should always suggest a closer look at everything. The last issue is that this is a field unit- the vast majority of soldiers began in Ersatz units, and they carried discs from those Ersatz units regardless of what field unit they served in- so there probably weren't any, or were only a few men who migh have had a disc marked to SS-Panzer-Artillierie-Regiment 1. There could have been a stock of replacements held by the unit, however it's unlikely over 2000 would be kept. Only in cases like the recently-discussed 'Hohenstaufen', which issued discs at a Division level, were large stocks reasonably held.

    The second disc is rather easier- the font is a known, common fake type, shown in the 'fake fonts' sticky thread at the beginning of the section, where everyone checking on a disc should always look first; it's the simplest way to identify a fake. There's another significant issue (as if the font weren't enough): the unit makes no sense. The 2. Kompanie of the DIVISION "Das Reich"? Ridiculous. The Kompanie is a subunit of a Bataillon or a Regiment, not a Divison. That's a huge mistake. The roll number is appropriate for a Kompanie and the blood group is a different font than the unit, which is usually a good thing, however neither one makes up for the unit and font issues. 100% fake.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  6. #15

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Many thanks Matt for setting this challenge and for providing such a detailed set of reasons why both are fakes. A good and useful aid to my learning about EKM. Thanks again.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  7. #16

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    well done matt (can you set another) i rather enjoyed this thread

  8. #17

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Thanks mate, I didn't post because I didn't know but I appreciate learning from you blokes that do. Thanks again, Dave.

  9. #18

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Quote by sandgroper View Post
    Thanks mate, I didn't post because I didn't know but I appreciate learning from you blokes that do. Thanks again, Dave.
    Same here Dave, and Thanks Matt good thread.
    [h=3]e plu·ri·bus u·num[/h]

  10. #19

    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Thank you very much for this thread Matt. Your knowledge is absolutely amazing. I find these darn things fascinating, but very intimidating as well. There is so much to learn, it can be overwhelming. You have done such a great job providing information, but many times, people don't do their homework and just throw it on here and ask "is it real". I certainly understand your frustrations. Believe me when I say there are many other forum members that soak up all the information you provide. Please don't get discouraged, your efforts ARE truely appreciated.

    Jay

  11. #20
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    Default Re: NEW Authenticity Challenge

    Well thanks guys, I'm glad you find this all helpful. Hopefully I'll find something else worth discussing before long.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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