NEW Authenticity Challenge

[Matt L]

A friend of mine asked my opinion on these two discs and I figured they might be good demonstration pieces- what do people think: are they good, bad and why exactly do you think so?

[Matt L]

52 views and not one idea yet? There are a multitude of things that can be said about both discs and none are particularly cryptic, so give it a shot

[talltom]

not being a erkennungsmarken expert (or ever having commented on a erkennungsmarken) i shall give it my best shot (and hopefully learn in the process)
the first one doesn't seem to have any bloodgroup markings which i think should be there definatly as its SS so i don't think thats original jmo
the second one i don't know but is it fake because the R has looks to have that little bump thing thats said to make it a fake??

please do correct me if im wrong

[CARL]

I am far from well up on the EM, but I will at least try to get the ball rolling Matt.

Neither are San-Serif...so that is a good start. The ageing of the metal doesn't appear too bad to my eyes, i.e. there are no blatant corrosion stains from chemical ageing. Blood group "A" is clearly marked on the lower piece. The markings, I will have to leave to others, although they appear to correlate to actual units. As for authenticity, mine would be a guess, and this is meant to be a test of knowledge I shall refrain from doing so, and leave it to those with a much better idea than I. However, I shall watch and (hopefully, if others contribute) learn.

Regards,

Carl

[Matt L]

not being a erkennungsmarken expert (or ever having commented on a erkennungsmarken) i shall give it my best shot (and hopefully learn in the process)
the first one doesn't seem to have any bloodgroup markings which i think should be there definatly as its SS so i don't think thats original jmo
the second one i don't know but is it fake because the R has looks to have that little bump thing thats said to make it a fake??

please do correct me if im wrong

Good suggestions Tom For the first one, what if it's an unissued disc? There are actually stocks of 'spares' found from time to time and some of the best known types of SS discs are these- unissued means no blood group. Plus the SS did use the tattoo for a time so sometimes one can find issued discs without a blood group, but it's not common. So while it's good to look at things that make sense or don't make sense, the lack of a blood group, in this case, isn't a flaw.

I think you might be thinking of a different 'font'- there's a lower-case set that's very commonly-seen that has flaws like that and it makes them immediately recognizable. This one's not the same, however you are on the right track...

[talltom]

thank you for the info i never knew there were still unissued ones thanks

[Matt L]

I am far from well up on the EM, but I will at least try to get the ball rolling Matt.

Neither are San-Serif...so that is a good start. The ageing of the metal doesn't appear too bad to my eyes, i.e. there are no blatant corrosion stains from chemical ageing. Blood group "A" is clearly marked on the lower piece. The markings, I will have to leave to others, although they appear to correlate to actual units. As for authenticity, mine would be a guess, and this is meant to be a test of knowledge I shall refrain from doing so, and leave it to those with a much better idea than I. However, I shall watch and (hopefully, if others contribute) learn.

Regards,

Carl

Indeed sometimes it takes an answer or two to stimulate folks to try these little fun challenges, so thanks for answering Carl

You're right, the lack of sans-serif letters removes one initial red-flag, and the aging does look real enough. Are you sure about the units though? Checking out a unit- structure, nomenclature, etc.- is a good way to spot a fake since most fakers don't understand the system very well and make errors. That's usually the first real research thing I try after scanning for obvious problems like font and state. They don't usually make something up totally, so you have to look at the OOBs and such to see if things are correct. I won't say if these are or not

[Jerry B]

Should the first one be marked for LSSAH, as it had changed it's name to that long before it became a Panzer division? In the middle of moving so don't have much access or time, but I will get back on this maybe later or tomorrow.

[Matt L]

Ah moving- I did that back in April for the first time in many years... hated it as much as I remember LOL I feel for you Jerry.

If you're saying the marking should be LSSAH and not SS- LAH you've found one of the problems. I don't think SS-LAH was ever proper; I've seen many discs marked simply L.A.H. but never with the SS, even where it should be. I have seen an SS-Soldbuch that listed an Erkennungsmarke reading LSSAH so it was proper, but perhaps just uncommon. I also doubt that quotation marks were ever correct for this unit- I've certainly never seen anything original with them.

There are many more details that will help decide if these discs are real or not.

[Jerry B]

Ah moving- I did that back in April for the first time in many years... hated it as much as I remember LOL I feel for you Jerry.

If you're saying the marking should be 'LSSAH' and not 'SS- LAH' you've found one of the problems. I don't think 'SS-LAH' was ever proper; I've seen many discs marked simply 'L.A.H' but never with the SS, even where it should be. I have seen an SS-Soldbuch that listed an Erkennungsmarke reading 'LSSAH' so it was proper, but perhaps just uncommon.

Yes, I hate moving and yes, I mean't it should not read as it does, but not sure what the proper designation on an EKM would be, just LAH or as you said the 'proper' markings. So that makes the first one a fake. I'll look at the other one later or tomorrow. As the others said and as you know, I also am not up on EKM's but always looking to learn more.