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A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

Article about: Hi, here is a new pioneer tag that a friend sent from Volgograd. He lives there, so somewhere in this area it was found. This is first tag I have with a blood group on it There also a small

  1. #1

    Default A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Hi, here is a new pioneer tag that a friend sent from Volgograd. He lives there, so somewhere in this area it was found. This is first tag I have with a blood group on it

    There also a small tag that has Sammler, from some sort of electrical device, and something maybe from a motocycle or vehicle?? A guarantee? He knows I ride and collect motorcycle items...so......??
    I told him I wanted the sammler tag becuase it means collector, and that is what I am.......a collector
    (with a 40 year addiction and disease)

    Does someone know more about this Pioneer division? or regiment on this erkennungsmarken? What is Zuge motor division?
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  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Hello,
    I think the unit from the EM is:
    Ersatz Kompanie für Pionier Züge (motorisiert) 4 (Pionier Ersatz Bataillon 4) - replacement company for motorised engineer platoons/ 4 engineers replacement battalion

  4. #3

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Quote by Stacez View Post
    Hello,
    I think the unit from the EM is:
    Ersatz Kompanie für Pionier Züge (motorisiert) 4 (Pionier Ersatz Bataillon 4) - replacement company for motorised engineer platoons/ 4 engineers replacement battalion
    Hi, Thanks for info. Then "Züge" is a motorist or motorized.

    What is Züge literally in German, do you know?

    Regards, Steve

  5. #4
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    It's "motorised" and Zug = platoon (Züge = platoons)

  6. #5
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Stacez- do you have a reason for believing it's Pionier-Ersatz-Bataillon 4? It doesn't make any sense to me to have the marking 'Ersatz-Kompanie für Pionier Züge' if the unit is already a Pionier Ersatz one- it's redundant, plus I'm unaware of any such unit ever associated with a standard Ersatz-Batillon.

    These 'Ersatz Kompanie für xyz Züge' type discs are very uncommon (few such units existed) and the one I know- Ersatz-Kompanie-für Infanterie-Reiter-Züg 44- I'm fairly sure was part of the 44. Infanterie-Division; it's a rare subunit of a Division, hence doesn't appear on any major list of Wehrmacht units. I would expect this one was of the same nature- the parent unit being the 4. Infanterie-Divison...

    Nice stuff though- Kilroy; Sammler does mean 'collector', but in this case I suspect it's 'accumulator'- since that's a real electrical part (a rechargable storage battery).
    Last edited by Matt L; 05-07-2010 at 05:08 PM.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Matt L, I think you're right. It rather belonged directly to 4. Infanterie Division than to typical Pionier Ersatz Bataillon. It was my first impression when I took a look on it that for some reason it might belong to this battalion. Maybe due to it isn't so common EM.

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Yeah, that's the trouble with these discs that have a detailed, specific small unit description and then just a number for the parent- you're always left wondering what exactly that parent might be. Sometimes I wonder about the logic behind some Erkennungsmarke text- if they're meant to identify a soldier, why make it difficult to understand what the unit who holds this identity might be?
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #8

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Quote by Stacez View Post
    It's "motorised" and Zug = platoon (Züge = platoons)
    Ahhh...OK, thank you for translation...nice to learn new info...Züge


    Regards, Steve

  10. #9

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    Stacez- do you have a reason for believing it's Pionier-Ersatz-Bataillon 4? It doesn't make any sense to me to have the marking 'Ersatz-Kompanie für Pionier Züge' if the unit is already a Pionier Ersatz one- it's redundant, plus I'm unaware of any such unit ever associated with a standard Ersatz-Batillon.

    These 'Ersatz Kompanie für xyz Züge' type discs are very uncommon (few such units existed) and the one I know- Ersatz-Kompanie-für Infanterie-Reiter-Züg 44- I'm fairly sure was part of the 44. Infanterie-Division; it's a rare subunit of a Division, hence doesn't appear on any major list of Wehrmacht units. I would expect this one was of the same nature- the parent unit being the 4. Infanterie-Divison...

    Nice stuff though- Kilroy; Sammler does mean 'collector', but in this case I suspect it's 'accumulator'- since that's a real electrical part (a rechargable storage battery).

    Hello Matt, thank you for the detailed information about my gift tag. This is very interesting information I never could have researched myself.

    So you have not seen many of this type erkennungsmarken?
    I have not either, and that is why I posted it....it looked odd to me.

    My friend is watching when he goes digging for Pioneer discs for me, because I told him I collect ordnance and grenades. He is also watching for motorcycle related items, because I am a bike rider for all my life. He has sent some motorcycle parts and a Kradch? Erkennungsmarken also that I showed a while back. So far these are nice gifts he gives me

    Do you know what the Garantie metal plate is? maybe I should post in another section?

    Regards, Steve

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: A New Pioneer Erkennungsmarken

    Hi Steve,

    No, I've never seen this particular type of Pionier disc before in fact- only the Reiter type I mentioned, but it was clear what it was from that similarity.

    I have no idea what the other plate is though.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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