Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

No Regiment or Battailon ID?

Article about: by Stacez Matt, you have to distinguish a replacement unit and a combat unit. If there is any Ersatz Kompanie it always belongs to the replacement unit (battalion, regiment etc.). It's not a

  1. #1

    Default No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Is this fake? There is no unit ID other than to the Kompanie and I find this odd. Am I off the mark here or right on the money? It also looks like the '8' of the Stammrollennummer is upside down which of course doesn't necessarily point to a fake but is curious nonetheless.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	25.8 KB 
ID:	156860

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    For me it looks OK, wear traces, and all other looks good, corrosion looks like natural.The price is very small, no reason for making fake, other seller items also looks like dug out, seller is Stalingrad digger.

    Only strange think is unit, but in that times could made some units inside Army or Division for their own uses and there would be no any information about them in archives.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Oh it's real and nothing rare or weird- I have 3 myself and have seen many more. However these are a bit confusing to be sure- there's no formal listing of these as independent Kompanien in any reference save a few mentions in lists of units in a particular city, and a couple of listings that they supplied replacements to the formal MG-Bataillone (MGEK 31 is stated to have supplied MGB 9, for example). So there's no detailed information about them really.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  5. #4
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Hello,

    There is nothing to be confusing In such cases it simply belongs to:

    (4) Maschinen-Gewehr Ersatz Kompanie/ (Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon) 7

    Link: Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 7 - Lexikon der Wehrmacht

  6. #5

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Hello, there is a big difference between a Kompanie and a Battaillon, the tag clearly states 'Kompanie'. Where are you getting the '4' from?

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    The tag states so but it does not mean so... It's got an indirect or hidden sense behind. In this specific example the real meaning of this unit and its superior unit is like I wrote.
    Normally, it should be written in one of the ways you can see here: emarken.de - Gallerie. Sometimes it happened the inscription on the ID tag has only one number (like in yours). Thus, you have to take a look on the typical structure of infantry replacement battalion - each normally contained (before autumn 1942) four training companies of which the fourth was a machine-gun training company. It was obvious in Replacement Army, so you can find ID tags stamped without "4" digit (which normally indicates the fourth machine-gun training company).

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Well since it's not stated formally anywhere that 'Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon' is 'to be understood', even in Soldbücher (see Gotrick Collection) there's no mention of an IEB, it's not really clear nor certain that is the case.

    Unfortunately the emarken.de site does have some evidence that contradicts the idea that the MG Ers Kp belongs to an IEB- there's a disc marked 'MGEK 412' and one marked '3./ J. Ers. Btl. 412'- it's hard to understand why just the MG unit would dispense with the formal title, particularly since the norm for an IEB's MG Kompanie is: '4./ I.E.B. nnn', or '4. (MG)/ Inf. Ers. Btl nnn', or '4. MGK Inf. Ers. Batl. nnn', and so on. One would reasonably expect IEB 412 to mark it's MG unit's discs just like the other Kompanien: '4./ J. Ers. Btl. 412'. I've never seen a significant change in nomenclature for one small portion of a larger unit.

    Tessin and other unit list sources do mention MGEK units alone, as I stated, and never as part of a larger unit, and there seem to have been many types of 'specialist' Ersatz-Kompanie that weren't necessarily part of larger units- Kraftfahrpark, Pionier, Fla-MG, among others. I have a disc marked 'Pi. Ers. Kp. 257' and there is no Pionier-Ersatz unit of that number- there is only a Regiment, and that could suggest these MG. Ers. Kp discs are actually from the corresponding Infanterie-Regimenter.

    I remembered that I also have several discs marked 'Schützen-Ersatz-Kompanie', which isn't Schützen as in the early name of the Panzergrenadiere but as in 'rifleman', and their being specifically denoted as rifle Kompanien does seem to work with the MG Kompanie also being specified; one is marked 'Schtz. Ers. Kp. 2/39' which fits with an MG disc I have marked 'MG Ers. Kp. 4/39', however the same trouble exists- there was both an Infanterie-Regiment 39 and an Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 39, so to which, if either, did they belong? Or are they independents since the format is very atypical for either larger unit type?

    So the only reasonable answer is we don't know for sure what the case is here- every possibility either has only inference for and some evidence against or has no evidence at all. That's one of the problems with Erkennungsmarken- they're meant to identify but sometimes they themselves aren't clearly identifiable...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Quote by Matt L View Post
    I remembered that I also have several discs marked 'Schützen-Ersatz-Kompanie', which isn't Schützen as in the early name of the Panzergrenadiere but as in 'rifleman', and their being specifically denoted as rifle Kompanien does seem to work with the MG Kompanie also being specified; one is marked 'Schtz. Ers. Kp. 2/39' which fits with an MG disc I have marked 'MG Ers. Kp. 4/39', however the same trouble exists- there was both an Infanterie-Regiment 39 and an Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 39, so to which, if either, did they belong? Or are they independents since the format is very atypical for either larger unit type?
    Matt, you have to distinguish a replacement unit and a combat unit. If there is any Ersatz Kompanie it always belongs to the replacement unit (battalion, regiment etc.). It's not a part of the combat unit! In this case it will be for sure Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 39.

    Coming back to our MGEK7, sorry, but I don't agree. I'll give similar example because the same story works for the specific companies belonging to Infanterie-Ersatz-Regiment, for instance: Infanterie-Geschütz-Ersatz-Kompanie or Panzer-Jäger-Ersatz-Kompanie. You can find many ID tags with only one number written after abbreviation of this company and it doesn't mean it's independent company. It's related to the typical structure of this infantry replacement regiment in which these companies had always 13 and 14 numbers accordingly.

    If you go to another forums and either ask about this MGEK 7 or try to find alike case you will receive the same answer I gave here.
    MGEK 7 - Militaria Fundforum
    Forum der Wehrmacht | Einheiten des Heeres | 15. / J.N.E.K. 246

  10. #9

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Great discussion guys! But I have to say I am quite confused...are we agreed to JER 7 or JEB 7? If it is any help the disc is supposed to be Stalingrad dug and i'm having troubles finding either an Infantry Ersatz Regiment 7 or Bataillon 7 being anywhere other than France in late 1942.

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: No Regiment or Battailon ID?

    Glenn66, as I mentioned before MGEK 7 belonged to Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon 7. Concerning your remark - soldier with your ID tag could have been in the units which IEB 7 was replacing. There were as follows:

    Stäbe: 41. Festungs-Division; 252. Infanterie-Division; Ortskommandantur 646; Ortskommandantur 793;

    Infanterie-Regimenter: 7; 526 (I.); 677; 728 (I.);

    Grenadier-Regimenter: 7; 461; 472; 526 (I.); 677; 728 (I.); 1066;


    Then you can check if some of them was at Stalingrad.
    Last edited by Stacez; 11-19-2010 at 04:46 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SS Fuss-Standarte Regiment 87

    In SS Uniforms and insignia
    09-07-2017, 11:00 PM
  2. Infantry-Regiment 19 Munich

    In Photos - Papers - Propaganda of the Third Reich
    11-11-2010, 09:28 AM
  3. Grenadier regiment 726

    In Photos - Papers - Propaganda of the Third Reich
    07-21-2010, 05:01 AM
  4. Help Identify WW1 Regiment

    In WW1 Allies: Great Britain, France, USA, etc 1914 - 1918
    11-03-2009, 06:41 PM
  5. Which regiment.

    In WW1 Allies: Great Britain, France, USA, etc 1914 - 1918
    10-27-2009, 05:16 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •